May
9
Rossi ECat Cold Fusion Reactor Update
May 9, 2011 | 220 Comments
From a blog in Europe at 22passi.blogspot.com comes some insightful information about the Rossi ECat cold fusion reactor. The source of the information is Professor Christos Stremmenos. Professor Stremmenos began his scientific studies at the University of Bologna in the 1950s and continued to live, work and marry in Italy until his retirement.
Professor and Ambassador Christos Stremmenos.
The professor has been interested in cold fusion since the first experiments by Fleischmann and Pons, with attempts to replicate the two chemists’ experiments. Those studies brought him into close contact with Sergio Focardi; the two have worked together on cold fusion research moving to nickel powder instead of palladium.
Stremmenos role for the path of the Rossi ECat cold fusion reactor back to Greece also begins in the 1950s. Professor Stremmenos opposed the Greek Military Junta that came to power in the late 1960s. That activity formed associations with anti-facists including Andreas Papandreou and with his son George Papandreou, current Prime Minister of Greece. By the 1980s Stremmenos was appointed Ambassador to Italy for Greece.
Stremmenos is the man who bringing the Rossi ECat to Greece working with the Greek government to set up the factory that will manufacture the reactors and which will produce a 1-megawatt power plant.
22passi.blogspot.com has published an English translation parts of a radio interview at radio.rcdc.it with Professor Stremmenos describing his mediation with the Greek government to make an industrial plant possible. Defkalion Green Technology, the new company mentioned in previous reports, is a business venture of which he is vice-chairman — on “honorary terms”, he says.
Stremmenos also offers some criticism of those within the scientific community refusing to give the new discovery due consideration.
With his enthusiasm for the discovery of a new technology which he calls “revolutionary” and capable of solving mankind’s energy problems, Stremmenos declares: “Skeptics shall be defeated by the market — though this discovery is not meant to serve capitalists, but mankind”. The date is set, he says, for the October opening of the first cold fusion power plant, in Greece.
Meanwhile the Greek business newspaper, Express, is reporting back on March 16th of 2011, “A 200 million euro investment is about to arrive in Xanthi (a city in northern Greece) for the startup of an industrial unit for the production of devices for low cost thermal and electric energy generation.”
These two pieces put a much different light on the Rossi Focardi ECat cold fusion reactor. With The University of Bologna, the Greek government, some official involvement and fully private investment coming from Rossi alone the picture is looking quite different than simply an astonishing breakthrough – The Rossi ECat is making progress to market with plans for scale underway.
Those are just confirming extensions of the information we already have. What is new and quite interesting is the discussion describing in broad strokes about how the Italian folks got from the early palladium idea on to nickel and getting output into the kilowatt range. It’s a short story, but does hit the high points – it’s a good read.
Another noticeable point is Stremmenos offering the latest developments of Focardi’s studies, which came about thanks to the innovations made by Dr. Rossi, saying “we have many ideas” – claims Stremmenos – “and there still is a long way to go, but this is a road that may lead to incredible developments”.
This news is sure to light up the Rossi Cold Fusion community, and justifiably so. The news while lightly technical and offering some reassuring background will firm up the positive opinions with more real world facts.
The naysayers are getting into a problematic quandary. On one side the science story is gradually getting exposed. On the other commercial production looks immanent.
Pretty soon it looks like the science community had better be figuring out the why instead of offering pundit like arguments why not.
Lets hope the patent effort bears positive fruit for Rossi and soon. Everyone would sure like to know what’s going on inside that reactor and figuring out the chemistry, physics and why the sciences are working together to release energy.
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I cannot help but be hopeful that this breakthrough is real. It offers hope for the entire world. Poor nations might have a chance to move forward.
Remember that 1/2 of the world still cooks and heats with wood or dung.
I hope the cold fusion works.
Sadly, whenever a field gets “hot” from an investment viewpoint, fraud becomes rampant.
The fraudsters’ business model is to raise money and run, not create a real product.
I hope for the best, but I smell fraud.
“Commercial production looks immanent”.
Maybe so. But is it IMMINENT? That’s much less probable!
200 million euros! Someone seriously believes in this technology! I am very excited about the future with this technology, it will change the entire concept of energy, and I think it’ll do it very rapidly.
As I am trying to figure out what the future will be like with nickel power so I have enjoyed the blog http://www.nickelpower.org.
Please New Energy, keep the news coming on this topic.
People inclined to take this nonsense seriously would do well to read the long and scholarly discussion of these claims at
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=198040
Like Benjamin Cole I too “smell fraud”.
It is only too true that everyone would like to know what’s going on inside that reactor. A good way of finding out would be for Rossi to allow it to be properly and fully examined by qualified scientists. Why has he not done this?
By the way, if commercial production does in fact take place I will be delighted, and I promise to return here and apologize for my lack of faith. But if by the end of 2011 the CF generators have not been put into production, I will expect a similar apology from those who at this time are accusing “naysayers” of being in a “quandary”.
Agreed?
Somebody says listen to qualified “scientists,” that has to be the best joke of the year so far.
Craig Binns, I checked out your blog posting,but found a truckload of mostly dribble (as blogs usually are). Are you referring to the entry by Horatius on 18 Jan, 2011 or some other post(s)?
I personally am not finding a case against Dr. Rossi that is in any way as compelling to me as the fact that two Ph.D. physicists of high reputation that had no possible relationship with Rossi studied the reactor for 6 hours. They concluded that, “no known laws of physics were broken.”
georgehants
So you support Rossi because he is NOT qualified and NOT a scientist?
BFast
Then perhaps you would prefer the analysis of Rossi and his devices (and dubious past and credentials) available at
http://www.angewandtebiologischeneuemedizin.com/en/index.php?title=Focardi-Rossi_Energy-Catalyzer
Rossi will have to build his commercial plant and have it run successfully over time, to prove that his approach works.
If he can do that, theoreticians will have to come up with some new ideas to reconcile the demonstrated reality with the accepted theory.
If he cannot do that, the rest of the world will be no worse off for the lack of an “E-Cat” miracle device.
People who believe that all science is currently known and settled are the ones who worry me.
I don’t believe science is settled. I do believe people with replicable experiments are more believable than those without.
Why all the mumbo-jumbo?
Mumbo-jumbo is always a bad sign. I cannot think of s single case of a bona-fide real invention in which the inventor first presented a bunch of mumbo-jumbo to the world. Mumbo-jumbo means you want to raise more money, and have not a compelling case to present to investors.
If this e-cat is going to work, why not build it, show it off, explain it, make the world a better place and get rich?
My first impression is “Great, another flux capacitor, built by Tony Stark in a cave with unobtainium as the catalyst”.
However, after reviewing all of the published data, (still with a very skeptical hmmmm),
I wonder, is it possible that in this case engineering has preceded science?
[…] was reading a blog post in https://newenergyandfuel.com. One of the posts linked to a blog where the scientific community’s knee-jerk rejection of […]
BFast
Thanks for the link to your piece in nickelpower, especially:
“But what happens when the world discovers that there is something new under the sun, that this new thing with the power to transform the world has been under the noses of the scientific community for 22 years?”
It would be absolutely wonderful if the world discovered that; but the way NOT to discover the new thing (if indeed it’s there), as rightly stated by Martin Cole, is to present it as a bunch of mumbo jumbo.
In the field of world-changing alternative energy projects there have been more delusions, mistakes and outright scams than positive useful results. (What world-changing new energy sources have emerged from Blacklight?)
It is our obligation to approach all such claims with reserve and scepticism. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Rossi has provided nothing like enough evidence.
But in this case all we have to do is wait until October when commercial production is supposed to start. And if it really does I will most happily eat my words.
Benjamin Cole
Sorry I inadvertantly renamed you Martin for some incomprehensible reason!
Craig Binns, “In the field of world-changing alternative energy projects there have been more delusions, mistakes and outright scams than positive useful results. (What world-changing new energy sources have emerged from Blacklight?)”
Au contraire, there has NEVER (yet) been positive useful results from the “free energy” world (of which this is akin). The scams have come thick and fast.
Craig Binns, “It is our obligation to approach all such claims with reserve and scepticism. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Rossi has provided nothing like enough evidence.”
Extraordinary claims are required. However, “Rossi has provided nothing like enough evidence” needs to be prefaced with “in Craig Binns’ opinion”. I held skeptical after the 18 hour test because Dr. Levi was not truly independant. I actually wrote Dr. Rossi* suggesting that he have his technology examined by truly independent physicists. I don’t know if my e-mail motivated him or not, but a short time later two truly independent, and reputable, physicists did examine it. It was at this point that my personal threshold of “extraordinary evidence” was reached. I am personally fairly well invested in oil and hydroelectric. If I wait until everyone “gets it” before I get out of these investments, I’ll loose my shirt. There is an advantage in jumping on bandwagons earlier.
*Actually I believe he has a masters of engineering, not a doctorate. This does not leave him the uneducated bumpkin you make him out to be. If/when his discovery is confirmed the honorary doctorates will role in thick and fast.
BFast
I most certainly don’t think that Rossi is an uneducated bumpkin; and I’m sure he’s a most intelligent person too, which of is of course beside the point.
Let me ponder your post for a while before I comment further.
This morning, 12 May 2011, I put a very small blog on the guardian saying “many people would not have work when the Rossi E-CAT is developed after Oct/ Nov this year” and that “it had been granted an Italian Patent and been verified by university’s.”
The blog has been removed by a moderator as ” not conforming to policy”.
What is going on, this is serious.
—
georgehants
“I hope for the best, but I smell fraud.”
You have a cold. Your sniffer is out of wack, painting with broad strokes. Do the research.
Georgehants
An Italian patent was granted in April 2011 with the number IT MI20080629 but a similar application was refused by the European Patent Office on the grounds that:
“In the present case, the invention does not provide experimental evidence (nor any firm theoretical basis) which would enable the skilled person to assess the viability of the invention. The description is essentially based on general statement and speculations which are not apt to provide a clear and exhaustive technical teaching.”
May I remind you that on 10 May you referred to qualified scientists as “a joke”; but now you’re defending Rossi because his device has allegedly been “verified by university’s”. I hope it was verified by the canteen cleaner, and not by one of the qualified scientific jokers who hang about in universities, but whom you affect to despise.
BFast
It is perhaps very significant that Rossi’s qualifications are in engineering. More to come.
http://www.angewandtebiologischeneuemedizin.com/en/index.php?title=Focardi-Rossi_Energy-Catalyzer#Patents_and_patent_applications
Craig Bins, “It is perhaps very significant that Rossi’s qualifications are in engineering.”
Let me see, Rossi’s qualifications are in engineering, Focardi’s in physics. Seems like a well rounded pair for the task to me.
My experience with the hoaxer set is that they have no education whatsoever. Further, they get people like “a master mechanic” to verify their technology, not renown Ph.D.’s. I have never yet, until now, seen an alternative energy scheme that has been verified by even one Ph.D. in anything.
BFast
Please have a look at:
http://aleklett.wordpress.com/2011/04/11/rossi-energy-catalyst-a-big-hoax-or-new-physics/
In particular, comments by Joshua Cude May 4, 2011 at 9:03 pm; May 5 at 3:26 and May 8 at 7:12, which I think are pertinent and valuable.
If it’s a delusion, it’s an engineering delusion. If nuclear physics had anything to do with it, so that the device was producing kilowatts via any kind of transmutation, then the PhDs present wouldn’t have been in a position to verify anything – not, at all events, by submitting written reports. Their carcasses would by now be in lead coffins under several metres of concrete, in consequence of the copious radiation that any such reaction would inevitably emit.
BFast
“I have never yet, until now, seen an alternative energy scheme that has been verified by even one Ph.D. in anything.” you say.
Why don’t we, more generally, look at the many cases where qualified observers have been able to deceive themselves? We can start with the N-Rays fiasco, ably described at
http://www.skepdic.com/blondlot.html
“René Prosper Blondlot (1849-1930) was a French physicist who claimed to have discovered a new type of radiation, shortly after Roentgen had discovered X-rays. [ … ] Dozens of other scientists confirmed the existence of N-rays in their own laboratories. However, N-rays don’t exist. How could so many scientists be wrong? They deceived themselves into thinking they were seeing something when in fact they were not. They saw what they wanted to see with their instruments, not what was actually there (or, in this case, what was not there).”
And in this case they were seeing with Rossi’s “instruments”, not their own. Error all the more likely. And we all WANT TO SEE cold fusion.
Craig Bins, thanks for the link, I’m going to link to it on my http://www.nickelpower.org website.
There seems to be a lot of energy discussing the steam output, and the amount of control that Rossi had in the measurement of the steam. I remind, however, that the 18 hour test avoided the steam equation altogether. The water output was measured and the increase in temperature was measured. I did like this approach over the steam approach.
If Dr. Rossi is slowing down the water flow to allow the 300w heaters to be producing all of the steam then two things are clear:
1, he is not fooled, he is fooling.
2, these physicists are idiots that cannot visually estimate the difference between 300w worth of steam and 5kw worth of steam.
BFast
Thanks. Your site is extremely interesting. I really hope Rossi has got something here, but I can’t suppress my grave doubts, even if his device has been verified by a PhD.
Take for example Hal Puthoff PhD who has spent several decades “verifying” all manner of things from Scientology to Uri Geller:
“We feel that, as a result of this series of very well-controlled experiments in which Geller was almost always separated from the target material by shielding, we can safely say that it is evident that Geller does have paranormal perceptual abilities.” ( Targ and Puthoff 1973)
UFOs:
http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc59.htm
“Perhaps surprising to the casually interested, under careful examination the observations, [of UFOs] rather than defying the laws of physics as naive interpretation might suggest, instead appear to be solidly commensurate with them …”
And our old friend zero-point energy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_E._Puthoff#
“Currently, Puthoff is the CEO of a privately funded research organization called EarthTech International [which] evaluates claims of devices (so called “over-unity” devices) that are said to release more energy, presumably extracted from the ambient Zero Point electromagnetic field, than they consume from conventional power sources.”
By the way, why doesn’t Rossi detach his device from its power source once it has been primed, and link the output back to the input? A small steam powered generator would do the trick. Remember that he’s supposed to have been heating a factory with one of these things for the last year!
Such an arrangement would verify beyond all doubt that his contraption is truly generating power.
Hello Folks,
Rossi stated clearly that, for safety reasons only, he can’t detach the E-Cat from power.
Why aren’t you lot a bit more optimistic?
The Rossi toy whenever examined by unquestionable scientists has actually worked and the energy factor is great indeed!
Let’all pray that the Greek 1MW unit doesn’t get sabotaged by the oil majors or some Arab jihadis afraid he’ll run out of funds ….
If they kill Rossi himself it seems he’s taken appropriate precautions anyway.
Think of a world without hydrocarbons and dangerous nuclear plant.
A clean world to leave to our children.
A world in which work and intelligence are again the real values, irrespective of oil.
We would stop funding Arab terrorists indirectly via the Saudis, etc.
No cash for madrassas teaching Islamic fundamentalism.
Vehicles eventually running off steam or electricity without pollution.
A 61 year young from Tuscany
Dear 61 year young from Tuscany
When faced with remarkable claims like those advanced by Rossi, it is necessary to look at the evidence without undue “optimism”, and it is equally necessary while considering the evidence not to become intoxicated by the prospects which would be opened up if the claims are in fact valid.
ALL OF US WOULD BE DELIGHTED IF THE DEVICE WORKS. That is NOT the issue.
Where is the evidence that jihadis intend to kill Rossi? What is this stuff about Madrassas?
Dear BFast
Here we go again! Just as in your blog. Why is religion intruding itself into this question? Surely it is a matter for dispassionate examination and not religious controversy. What does whether or not cold fusion exists have to do with whether God exists, let alone whether Muslims go to madrassas, Jews to yeshivas or Christians to Sunday school?
This is all very disquieting.
I have been thinking about the possibilities. I can find only three:
1 – The thing works basically as described. Of course how the science works out may prove to be very much different than described.
2 – Rossi believes that it works, and has convinced 4 Ph.D. physicists, even though it doesn’t work. Possible, I guess. However, the kind of evidence presented — a measured 5 horsepower worth of heat from a device the size of my fist, or 20 horsepower from a 1 quart device is pretty good evidence.
3 – Rossi knows right well that the thing doesn’t work. He has gone out of his way to make it look like it works even though it doesn’t (a flow-rate changing device was suggested.) If this is the case, I vote Rossi for the “20 pound balls of steel” award for daring to perpetrate his hoax on two top Ph.D.’s whose spidey sense was piqued.
Occam’s razor suggests that the first is the likely case.
BFast
On the contrary; Occam’s razor shaves away all but the 3rd of your possibilities. Even if Rossi in fact is not a fraud, it is vastly more probable that he is one than that he has performed a revolution in physics, or that he has invented the most valuable energy-emitting device ever produced by the human mind – and can’t unplug it from the wall socket “for safety reasons only”!
And I have shown you that PhDs are capable of verifying the most remarkable things, like a spoonbender’s preternatural visionary powers.
Anyway, Rossi’s career already demonstrates the steeliness of his balls. See:
http://www.angewandtebiologischeneuemedizin.com/en/index.php?title=Focardi-Rossi_Energy-Catalyzer#Inventor_Andrea_Rossi
“The “Rossi Energy Amplifier” is not the first invention made by Andrea Rossi. During the 1970ies and 1980ies, he tried to produce hydrocarbons from waste to no avail. This resulted in several law suits and criminal cases with prison sentences against the “Sheik of Brianza” (Sceicco della Brianza, sheik because he claimed to produce oil from industrial waste. Brianza is a region north of Milan). [ … ] According to an article in the Italian newspaper “Corriere della Sera” for April 6, 1995 Rossi and a Michele Pizzato were arrested twice. As a member of a “gang” and “criminal organisation” he is said to have smuggled two tons of gold in a money laundering operation.
“Rossi, however, perceived this as a repression of his allegedly ecological conversion technology. He migrated to USA after a series of criminal proceedings.”
The repression was, according to Rossi, perpetrated by both the Italian government and the mafia. In spite of which he has bravely returned with yet another world-shaking energy project; though the jihadis are now after him as well it seems.
That’s cojones!!
Has anyone else thought to do research into Michaele Pizzato, Rossi’s co-accused in the waste-dumping and gold-smuggling charges?
I can find three internet references to a person or persons of that name described as Italian, resident in Switzerland, and involved in currency and precious metals transactions.
1. The person already mentioned above.
2. A person of the same name reported in the Corriere del Ticino 10/10/2002 as having been charged with smuggling €380m into Switzerland. This person had been sentenced following a previous similar charge in 1996, just like Pizzato no. 1.
3. A “precious metals trader” of that name whose death was reported in ticinoNews.ch 11 June 2008. Like Pizzato no. 2 this one had previously been associated with the Amro Bank di Chiasso, and had been accused of currency smuggling. A resident of (Swiss-Italian) Ticino, he had recently died of “fulminant malaria”, a disease uncommon in Switzerland, so presumably contracted during a visit to Cameroon, which he often visited while “hunting for gold”.
Is it possible that these are same person? If so, Rossi has been unfortunate in his choice of business partners.
On Rossi’s “Petroldragon”, despite what angewandtebiologischeneuemedizin.com says, “he tried to produce hydrocarbons from waste to no avail”, the Wikipedia article on “Petroldragon”, (translated into English by Google) says,
“Previously, the invention of Andrea Rossi (October 1977 ), this process was rather expensive, because the energy produced was lower than it was consumed to support the process. Through empirical studies and subsequent developments in later years, especially in the United States, the process has produced even better yields. For example in the late 70’s of last century, the Petroldragon reported a conversion efficiency of the EUSR in weight due to fuel products by 80%. Recently seems to have done better Changing World Technologies with a yield of 85%.”
Therefore, if Wikipedia is right, Rossi’s oil from garbage invention worked. It may not have produced oil economically (I think modern technology does it at about $40 per barrel) but IT DID PRODUCE OIL.
If Wikipedia is right, therefore, ange….com clearly exaggerates its denigration of Rossi.
Converting waste to oil doesn’t entail a revolution in scientific theory, so who knows whether it can be compared with LANR?
What is known is that It left behind a huge amount of hazardous waste improperly stored, costing vast sums of public money to deal with. It resulted in years of litigation. It resulted in Rossi’s migration to the USA.
How did it pan out for investors?
This time he’s promising us what amounts to magic, not a mere improvement in current technology.
Where are the gamma rays?
BFast
Have you looked up “Defkalion” yet? It’s the modern Greek version of the name of the ancient hero, who was a Greek version of Noah in their form of the Flood myth. (Or is the Flood story as genuine as ID? But I digress … )
Anyway, see: http://www.pantheon.org/articles/d/deucalion.html
“When Zeus punished humankind for their lack of respect by sending the deluge, Deucalion and his wife Pyrrha were the sole survivors. They were saved because of their piety. Prometheus advised his son to build an ark and they survived by staying on the boat.”
Everyone else got drowned. So before I invest in Defkalion, I will want to ensure that my share certificate entitles me to a place on that boat!
Hi,
I’ve just identified the type of auxillary heater used. I’m talking about the two white wires coming out of the bolt head at the end of the horizontal copper tube. It’s a common type of heater called a ‘cartridge heater’ and comes in various power ratings. However the size of the bolt head suggests it is around 5/8″ and a high power rating. A typical heater of this type can be rated a 2kW. This heater plus the 300W band heater adds up to 2.3kW and explains the long length of the horizontal pipe.
The question is, how is the power being supplied to the heaters? Remember Rossi is doing these demostrations in his own lab under his conditions! The illusion may just involve hidden wires in the wooden table legs and hidden coils in the large base board and table.
Rossi may simply be a magician.
I really hope this isn’t the case, but he doesn’t go out of his way to allay fears of a hoax.
Malcolm
Malcolm, That’s a rather archaic kind of scam! See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_perpetual_motion_machines
“In 1870, E. P. Willis of New Haven, Connecticut made money off a “proprietary” perpetual motion machine. [ … ] Investigation into the device eventually found a source of power that drove it.
“John Ernst Worrell Keely claimed the invention of an induction resonance motion motor. He explained that he used etheric ‘technology’. [ … ] Shortly after 1872, venture capitalists accused Keely of fraud (they lost nearly five million dollars). Keely’s machine, it was discovered after his death, was based on hidden air pressure tubes.
“In the 1910s and 1920s, Harry Perrigo of Kansas City, Missouri, a graduate of MIT, claimed development of a free energy device. Perrigo claimed the energy source was ‘from thin air’ or from aether waves. […] Investigators report that his device contained a hidden motor battery.”
“Aether/ether” was the 19th to early 20th century equivalent of cold fusion, it would seem. Einstein demonstrated its non-existence.
Did the verifying PhDs check the walls and table legs for coils, wires and the like? Does anyone know?
The best con artists actually believe the lies they are telling at the time they tell their lies. Rossi may fall into that category.
The mumbo-jumbo factor alone is enough to tell me he is a fraud. Sheesh, if I had an invention like this, I would make it public immediately, so that replicable experiments could take place. Rossi would become fabulously rich just from writing a book, let alone some sort of royalties.
So why the mumbo-jumbo?
Hello Benjamin,
You really are after con artists but I’m afraid this guy is really a con victim by Italian criminal waste management syndicates who left him penniless.
Trials are a lengthy affair in this Country. A case like Strauss-Kahn wouldn’t be touched by a magistrate before 6 months and would only be through after 10-15 years.
Having tried myself our Byzantine court system (8 years’ wait to be cleared of non-existent defamation written by others) I feel the man deserves the benefit of doubt.
Rossi admits mistakes but one should consider that his patents have been appreciated enough in the US to make him wealthy again, enough to create his own US company and finance the E-Cat project out of his pockets.
In short he’back with a vengeance….
An earlier comment said “he’s
Would you be happy with proceeds out of books after that?
He’s after showing his native Country that it was all a smearing operation.
Were I in his shoes I’d only be happy with a Nobel prize, wealth and fame.
Surely all these Ph.D.’s that attended his repeated demonstrations are qualified enough to give him the benefit of doubt?
Let’s wait till October and see what happens with the Greek plant.
Tuscan Optimist
So many Tuscan optimists!
First Supermario on 14/05/11 and now Mario Ricci today! Or are they perhaps same person?
As the poet Macaulay wrote (“Horatius”, 1842):
Even the ranks of Tuscany
Could scarce forbear to cheer.
“Surely all these PhDs that attended his repeated demonstrations are qualified enough to give him the benefit of the doubt.”
And how qualified is that?
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=198040&page=6
There is extensive thread on this site regarding e-cat. Evidently, Rossi is an obvious fraud. Made up Board of Advisors. Crank claims about being under attack etc.
An “Uh-Oh” moment for the naysayers?
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3179019.ece
BW
Benjamin
Thanks, but I already tried that one. See my post May 9, 2011 10:00 PM: “People inclined to take this nonsense seriously would do well to read the long and scholarly discussion of these claims at
http://forums.randi.org showthread.php?t=198040″
But the response by believer BFast, was to describe the thread as “a truckload of mostly dribble” May 10 9:28 AM.
Elsewhere, BFast’s critical faculties are on display at http://nickelpower.org/page-2/
Westenhaus: This is from the link you provided.
“Do you have any doubt that this doesn’t work in the end?
Cassarino: We did three demonstrations here in the US, and these were non public. We did have a group of scientists here that understood exactly what was going on, and we helped actually set up the demonstrations.
Obviously we still don’t understand what’s going on inside, but he has something, and we believe that.”
Hoo-boy, non-public demonstrations? Oh, sure, that is proof positive.
Look, I hope this works. But, if it worked, the investors would have a huge moral and monetary obligation to prove in a public setting, verifiable by independent scientists etc.
Non-public demonstrations vetted by unnamed scientists? This is the standard?
Here is Mario Ricci – alias Tuscan Optimist – again
It seems no one among you has taken seriously Mr Craig Cassarino and the new US company Ampenergo.
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3179019.ece
Signs pointing to a serious new invention are increasing whereas the naysayers seem doomed to pure conjectures and unfounded skepticism.
Up Focardi (another Tuscan) and Rossi.
I dream of the day when the Arabs will climb down their Cadillacs and will ride on camels again !!
Here’s another non-public matter:
“How much do you pay for the agreement?
Cassarino: Unfortunately that’s confidential.
Have you paid anything to Rossi yet?
Cassarino: Yes we have.
How much?
Cassarino: Let’s put it like this, it was an important piece of the equation.”
We have been told – it can’t be a scam because Rossi doesn’t get paid until working e-cats are marketed. But that can’t be true, if he has received “important” payments already, as plainly stated by Cassarino.
Ya know, if this discovery had been made at MIT or Stanford or any other institute of higher learning, the press might have taken it seriously. But these guys are from the University of Bologna. BOLOGNA.
Bologna university oldest in the world, founded 1088.
Alumni include Copernicus and Marconi.
Stanford alumni include Harold Puthoff PhD, who verified Uri Geller’s magical powers, as I discuss in my post of 14 May 12:23 AM.
Americans may not take Bologna seriously, but Europeans very much do.
Eprobe,
Why do you show off your ignorance so
blatantly?
Yes, obviously to you bologna just means a sausage.
You’re so ignorant that you can’t even imagine what the University of Bologna means. It is the oldest established university institution in the world dating back to 1088! You must be a person with no knowledge nor respect for European culture and history!
Surely the press know better than you do!
Shocked Tuscan
Supermario, Binns;
You are correct. I was wrong to make fun of the University of Bologna or anything having to do with Bologna. There’s nothing funny about Bologna. I have the deepest respect for the bunch from Bologna. And if cold fusion does prove to be technically feasible, it will still be complete Bologna.
I am the press, you humorless dipswitches!
My, my! Don’t get so cross!
With all due respect Mr. Eprobe, the press is depressing. Has no standing nor self regulation beyond selling papers and spots by creating controversy in most cases. It is a business, it can´t be helped. I am the owner of an small renewable energy company, an initiative. A got personal contacts with Bryan Appel from CWT, and had contacts with Andrea Rossi. Thermal depolymerisation works but is not very efficient yet. These persons risqued everything they had pursuing a dream in benefit of all mankind. Rossi´s investors gave money after they had working prototypes. In fact, military labs in the U.S. has already proven cold fusion. Peer reviewed journals literally said that the issue is not about feasibility but efficiency. This situations will always be “touchi” because this is a disrruptive technology still with a huge error margin. Some people has reproduced the ecat without the catalizing agent with reazonable results. Let´s wait and see what happens.
Nitsuga
Please, oh please, vouchsafe unto us some sources for these remarkable assertions.
Pardon me for a journalist’s healthy skepticism, but I have seen very little after this post on this technology which will purportedly change the eworld. The earlier January and March demonstrations received a lot of sttention, but like so many things of this kind it seems to have dropped like a rock out of sight since then. I was glad to see this post as recently as May, but this is late July and I see nothing new at all. Has it been definitively discredited? Has no patent been granted? Has Defcalion fallen apart? Is the Greek crisis too much to overcome? Please, keep the world informed. If something is going on, please let us know at every step. This assures a mounting confluence of interest that ideally will climax with the October start of mass manufacturing.