Andrea Rossi, the inventor and energy behind the E-Cat was interviewed by Gary Hendershot and Sterling Allan for the Smart Scarecrow Show last Saturday the 14th of January 2012.  The headline remark was Mr. Rossi has sent prototypes to the Underwriters Laboratories (UL).  As best can be determined, that remark is in the past tense.

The customary view is the UL accepts products destined for sale in the final form, which is a fact.  However, the UL also offers governmental units assistance in establishing reasoned law, regulation and rules.  For manufacturers the UL also extends more than just final product tests, they work with manufacturers at the design stage to assure that a final product will in fact achieve an UL label.  It’s a highly likely prospect that the design stage is where the UL and Mr. Rossi have started the process.  A quick review of the UL policy suggests that the E-Cat is substantially interesting enough to begin the UL Process and that Low Energy Nuclear Reactions are a new field.

For the cheering section, The UL will have to have a working unit running to establish their parameters on the terms set by the UL.  At some point, if an application for certification is made, the certainty the E-Cat will offer an alternative power source is essentially – a sure thing.

The UL involvement follows news that National Instruments (NI) is working with Mr. Rossi in designing new control systems for the one-megawatt and home size 10 kilowatt (kw) E-Cat.  In the conversation Mr. Rossi offered that now great progress is being made and on his blog he’s indicated that they have been able to achieve stable steam production of 400ºC. This will be important later for the efficient production of electricity.

The NI participation offers a technically proficient and sophisticated set of tools, expertise and products that will improve the E-Cat and impact favorably on its price.  There are other hints in the conversation that suggest the operation of an E-Cat is going to be “Plug and Play”, so much so that a home unit is going to come very soon.

First is the E-Cat is being designed to self sustain itself after the first initial warm-up.  For an hour the E-Cat is thought to need about 2.8 kw, or about the power of 28 100 watt bulbs.  From initiation of self-power, the only requirement is going to be electricity for the electronics and control system.  The home E-Cat will produce only heat for now.

It’s going to be very cheap heat.  Mr. Rossi is suggesting he can sell the E-Cat for $400 to $500 using the best engineering possible of the production line, automation of all aspects of the factory, and the use of robotics. The goal is to make this technology so affordable that everyone will be able to purchase a system.

The next revelation is E-Cat units would be capable of being re-fueled by individuals, not by technicians – somewhat like changing the ink in a pen. After using a cartridge for 180 service days (counted up as the system is actively in use), the system will indicate it needs to be replaced.  An old cartridge would then be sent to Mr. Rossi’s Leonardo Corporation to be recycled as much of the remaining nickel could be salvaged, and it would only need to be re-processed. Previous information has made clear that opening a cartridge is not a good idea as nickel while safe in sizes like coins isn’t when nickel is reduced to the particle size within a cartridge.

To begin with cartridges are expected to cost somewhat more than $10 and over time come down to the $10 regular recycled cost. If a home were to need one unit for both water and space heating at $500 upfront and lasting 5 years and $13 each six months the monthly cost would be $8.34 and $2.17 or $10.51.

The next revelation is the hydrogen needed to feed the reaction is going be sourced from within the reactor.  The home E-Cat may utilize a material inside of the reactor core, which can release and absorb hydrogen.  While the production of hydrogen isn’t made clear, the reactor may be producing it as well as using it, or some means of scavenging is being used.  However its being done, very little in involved.  A new core will be loaded with about 10 grams and only picograms are needed for driving the reaction.

The enticing clue for the disbelieving set is the proprietary radio frequency generator that has emissions to interact with the reactions inside of the core.  Along with the catalysts this is information that will stay secret as long as possible.  What did slip is Mr. Rossi compared the use of the radio frequencies to martial arts. Rossi explained that the radio frequency generator allows the forces that would normally prevent the fusion process from taking place (Coulomb forces) to work for you, and not against you. Rossi offers that the full theory of how the system works will be revealed, as he put it, “soon.”

By all means have a look at the full video of the interview. Its does run over 1:50, but for those with cause to be interested, this is a very good use of a couple of hours.  There is also a transcript available too.

The Rossi interview follows a video from NASA that discusses the importance of proceeding with LENR research.  The over reaction by some of those reporting on the video release is making more of a note than the original news.  Or simply put, jumping to the conclusion the NASA video somehow supports the Rossi E-Cat is just false.  The gentleman at NASA, Dr. Joseph Zawodny does not mention Rossi name, just that the preponderance of research has become many reasons to get to work.

The NASA video does point out one important thing.  While the first to market will be forever a leader, the technology is just now taking off and where it will lead in the decades to come is today anybody’s guess.


Comments

13 Comments so far

  1. JP Straley on January 17, 2012 12:42 PM

    I would be interested in a LENR-oriented mutal fund. There will be good companies and bad companies coming into existence as this technology comes to market, and picking out the more competent ones are what fund managers do. I’d bet they can do that job more competently than me. Brian Westenhaus, or others: got any ideas on this?

    JP Straley

  2. Jerry Taylor on January 17, 2012 4:47 PM

    Rossi has indicated that once his company is stable and selling units worldwide, he will then take the company public for folks to invest in. Then we have Defkalion which claims to have their LENR products into the Greek market sometime this year. I am sure there are others itching to go too. So, you are correct in calling for some early thinking in stating a professionally run fund for this upcoming trillion dollar potential market.

  3. Brad Arnold on January 17, 2012 5:22 PM

    A so far underestimated consequence of Rossi highly automating the home E-Cat factory is that it will be easily duplicated in other locations (i.e. China and India come to mind).

    Wow – that means the whole manufacturing process is easily scalable, and 1 million units/per year is only the very beginning. I’d LOVE to see the rate of LENR integration to be faster than the cell phone or home computer technology.

    On the down side, the psychological integration of LENR is going at a snail’s pace, with a schism forming between the reality of LENR, and people’s view of reality. This is very dangerous, because the fast closing of that schism can lead to a lot of very undesirable consequences including market disruptions, geo-political conflicts, and commodity fluctuations.

    This is a consequence of a dis-functional mass media. Yeah, LENR is a highly disruptive technology, but that can be mitigated with cautious introduction of the concept so (among other things) the market effects can be factored in slowly.

  4. BFast on January 17, 2012 5:58 PM

    At this point the validity of the Nickel + Hydrogen fusion process is pretty well established. However, Rossi hasn’t been the best purveyor of truth. I would sure love to hear from someone at UL declaring that they are actually validating an e-cat. UL, of course, is obligated to be tight-lipped.

    Sighned (sic)
    Impatient in the arctic.

  5. Benjamin Cole on January 17, 2012 8:14 PM

    UL is primarily concerned with safety, although according to their website they can also verify product performance.

    So far, Rossi has never had anyone anywhere independently verify that his black boxes work.

    It will be interesting to see if Rossi tries to pass off UL safety testing procedures as performance verification. That’s my guess—that Rossi is a fraud, taking yet another stab at separating investors from their money.

    It will be wonderful if all of us can have small cold-fusion nuclear power plants in our living rooms. Gee, why do I doubt that will happen?

  6. Benjamin Cole on January 17, 2012 8:42 PM

    You hear a lot about Dr. Zawodny, and NASA believing in cold fusion.

    “On his own blog, Dr, Zawodny writes (again, the highlights are mine):

    There have been many attempts to twist the release of this video into NASA’s support for LENR or as proof that Rossi’s e-cat really works. Many extraordinary claims have been made in 2010. In my scientific opinion, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I find a distinct absence of the latter. So let me be very clear here. While I personally find sufficient demonstration that LENR effects warrant further investigation, I remain skeptical. Furthermore, I am unaware of any clear and convincing demonstrations of any viable commercial device producing useful amounts of net energy.”

    Well said, Dr. Zawodny! The good doctor continued:

    “So what does extraordinary evidence look like? As a trained scientist, I have been taught the historical standards for acceptance of experimental results or theories. Experiments and theories go hand-in-hand in what is known as the scientific method. Both must be independently tested, replicated, or verified. As a minimum, experimental results must be replicated by an objective and independent party. The nature of the test or replication needs to adhere to the spirit of the original experiment but, should be under the full design, implementation, and control of the independent tester. So, if a device is claimed to be capable of producing excess heat by nature of its operation (i.e., the consumption of fuel via a nuclear process), it must be operated properly. The way power input and power output are measured should be left up to the independent tester. This is standard scientific practice. What would take this to the next level (extraordinary evidence) would be to have the test be an open public test. The nature of the test and specific approach to executing the test should be made public. The conduct of the test should be open to additional 3rd party experts. And finally, the data should be publicly released. Further peer review of all aspects of the independent test is a must. Community consensus is the ultimate goal. Every attempted demonstration of a LENR device that I am aware of has failed to meet one or more of these criteria.’

    In other words, Rossi is bogus to the moon.

  7. BFast on January 17, 2012 10:45 PM

    Benjamin Cole, “As a minimum, experimental results must be replicated by an objective and independent party. The nature of the test or replication needs to adhere to the spirit of the original experiment but, should be under the full design, implementation, and control of the independent tester.”

    Done: http://nickelpower.org/2011/12/30/replicators-as-if-december-30-2011/

    At minimum the Nickel + Hydrogen = excess heat phenomenon has been multiply replicated, and published in the journals.

    Under “scientific skepticism”, Wikipedia says, “extraordinary claims would require extraordinary evidence”.

    As his claim that he is getting heat from Ni + H is no longer extraordinary, Rossi’s claim is much less extraordinary. He is now only claiming that he has optimized a phenomenon that is known to science.

    Lastly, Rossi has no motivation to prove his results to the world. He may have been smarter to have kept his mouth shut all of this time. (Even though his public demos have produced some attractive partners.) If Rossi “proves beyond doubt” now, he’ll only face stronger headwinds of competition.

  8. Brad Arnold on January 18, 2012 12:16 AM

    Cole: As far as “what does extraordinary evidence look like,” you can go through the absurdly elaborate steps that Zawodny has suggested or
    YOU CAN SIMPLY MASS PRODUCE A LENR GENERATOR AND SELL IT TO THE PUBLIC.

    Rossi has chosen the second route. Our scientific community has become so ossified and bureocratic that progress is threatened.

  9. BFast on January 18, 2012 7:00 PM

    Brad Arnold, “Rossi has chosen the second route.”

    And the scientific community will wake up shocked. They were totally unaware of LENR of any sort despite the hundreds of scientists who have produced it.

    And their surprise will be fun!

    And it’ll take no time at all for the scientific community to claim that they were “on it” ever since the Pons, Fleischmann announcement. Yeah, like they are “on it” right now.

  10. Brad Arnold on January 19, 2012 12:48 AM

    Consensus reality is one thing, but those scientists are suppose to operate with a philosophy of science. Instead, the whole system is geared toward orthodoxy and group think. I guess it is like everything else: follow the money. When LENR is proven demonstrably inarguably to be wildly profitable, then the scientific grants will flow, and lead scientists will decide to devote their team’s energy to that area of research.

    Here at work the head of the company, and they wrote me up for not going through the chain of command. Before, when I went through the chain of command, they buryed it by routing it to our “energy consultant.” When the LENR hits the fan so to speak, I expect them to come back to me for advice (I’ve said previously I can save the company millions of dollars), and I will decline.

    In general, and in specific here, they proclaim an open door policy, tout ethical & moral behavior, and also urge leadership, but then act like cavemen when it comes down to action and response. What hypocrites.

    What keeps me going is the knowledge that this technology will help the poor. God bless the poor, especially the 50% of US children living in poverty. What hypocrites our leaders are.

  11. Benjamin Cole on January 19, 2012 7:23 PM

    I sense the commenters here have a stake in seducing investors.

  12. The Latest on Cold Fusion | Earth's Energy on January 24, 2012 8:08 AM

    [...] See also New Energy and Fuel Rossi E-Cat Destined For Underwriters Laboratory [...]

  13. Rockyspoon on January 26, 2012 11:29 AM

    Your sense is mistaken, Benjamin Cole. I’ve had a lot of experience with “promoters”, having been a professional in mining most of my life. I don’t see the same signs of promotion from Rossi–indeed, he’s not asking anybody here for money nor is anybody commenting here trying to “seduce” inventors.

    Face it, I’m certainly not asking for your wallet! We’re all just excited to see where this all goes.

    But if one of his Rossi Heaters are available at my local Home Depot in a year or so, I’ll certainly trudge on down and talk to the salesman about it. I might even take my wallet.

    Would that be “seducing investors”??

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