Andrea Rossi with Sergio Focardi consulting made news in January with a demonstration of the Rossi design of a nickel hydrogen fueled low energy nuclear reaction (LENR) reactor. The past month has been pretty quiet in much of the world where the noose of established science has no temperament for things not already successfully through its own peer review.

Rossi and Focardi at the Italy Demonstration January 2011

But outside of the science establishment lacking curiosity and vision the press has caught on  – which leaves most of the news in foreign languages.  Most notable is Italy, Rossi’s and Focardi’s native land is proudly reporting as well the Greek and Swedish press as well as across Europe, and there is a factory in Greece due to run a commercial demonstration later this year.

But for those of us where the science chooses to be blind and offers a nasty treatment for those willing to proceed, the progress comes as welcome news.  That brings us to America’s most noteworthy scientist on cold fusion – Edmund Storms.

Dr. Edmund Storms was just back from Chennai, India where the International Conference on Cold Fusion 16 (ICCF-16) took place when James Martinez arranged an interview that played for his Cash-Flow listeners on March 1. The ICCF-16 is a conference where researchers in low-energy nuclear reactions share their most recent results.  Mr. Martinez taped the interview in conjunction with 137 Films crew filming their documentary on cold fusion. To be released in late summer, it is expected to make the independent film festival rounds.

Now Dr. Storms is a long-time private researcher in cold fusion and author of “The Science of Low-Energy Nuclear Reactions“. Storms obtained a Ph.D. in radiochemistry from Washington University (St. Louis) and is retired from the Los Alamos National Laboratory after thirty-four years of service. His work at Los Alamos involved basic research in the field of high temperature chemistry as applied to materials used in nuclear power and propulsion reactors, including studies of the “cold fusion” effect.  Seventy reviewed publications and monographs resulted from Storm’s work at Los Alamos as well as several books, all describing an assortment of material properties.

Storms own cold fusion work has resulted in fifteen presentations to various conferences including the American Chemical Society and American Physics Society. In addition, twenty-one papers have been published including four complete scientific reviews of the field, one published in 1991, another in 1996 and 1998, and the latest in 2000. A critical evaluation of the Pons-Fleischmann Effect was published in 2000. In May 1993, he was invited to testify before a congressional committee about the “cold fusion” effect. In 1998, Wired magazine honored him as one of the 25 people who is making a significant contribution to new ideas.

Dr. Storms is no lightweight, and hasn’t risen to the bait of the cold fusion deniers.  Retired and happy to be curious, he must drive the establishment a bit nuts.

Martinez’ interview with Storms has been condensed in text at ColdFusionNow.  The full audio podcast is this link running a bit under 24 minutes with a couple of minutes up front of music and introduction.  For those interested in the highlights they are as follows:

Storms on the situation of the Rossi and Focardi reactor: “They [Rossi and Focardi] found a way of amplifying the effect to a level that makes it attractive as an industrial source of energy and people in the cold fusion field have been working towards that, but they had not achieved that level of heat production, and so this was both a bit of a surprise and a bit shock, but a bit of a kick to get people moving a little more rapidly now. And it looks like the phenomenon will actually have an application.”

His thoughts on the science status: “We’ve arrived. It’s interesting we’ve arrived in a different car than we thought we were. Cold fusion started out using deuterium and palladium, and then Rossi found that it worked quite well in nickel and light hydrogen.”

On Rossi’s path to discovery: “Rossi hit upon this somewhat by accident. He was using a nickel catalyst to explore ways of making a fuel by combining hydrogen and carbon monoxide and apparently, observed quite by accident, that his [apparatus] was making extra energy. So then he explored it from that point of view and, apparently, over a year or two, amplified the effect.”

“He’s exploring the gas loading area of the field. This is also a region, a method used in the heavy water, or the heavy hydrogen, system. But in this case, it was light hydrogen, ordinary hydrogen and nickel and what happens is quite amazing.”

“You create the right conditions in the nickel, and he has a secret method for doing that, and all you do is add hydrogen to it and it makes huge amounts of energy based upon a nuclear reaction.”

Storm’s thoughts on the secrecy: “Well, you really need a patent, you need to protect your intellectual property. You want to be able to gain some economic benefit from the discovery. So far, they have not gotten a patent, and that’s always been difficult in the cold fusion field because the patent examiners simply don’t believe that it’s real.”

“So, until they get a patent, they’re not revealing how they do it. Now, they’ve been upfront about what they can do and what they promise to do, and so far, they’ve fulfilled these promises. Once they get their patent, then they promise to reveal how they go about doing this.”

Storm’s thoughts about the coverage both where its well covered and not: On the covered side, “The Swedish newspapers, the Italian newspapers, the Greek newspapers, they showed an interest. The American newspapers showed none at all. It’s been on a number of blogs and talked about in a number of chat rooms, but no, it hasn’t reached a level of any serious importance to the American press.”

Not covered, “Mainly because, it is institutionally the belief that cold fusion is not real, or if it is real, it’s so trivial, it’d make no difference to anybody. That’s institutional. It’s the myth that’s in, we’ll call it, the intellectual structure of the United States, and a number of other countries.”

And Storm’s knowledge of national support, “There are a few countries where that’s not true, and Italy is one of them. The government there believes that it’s real, and they’re doing everything they can to develop it. The government in China believes it’s real and they’re doing everything they can to develop it.”

And lastly, Dr. Storms offers this bit of news: “Rossi . . . (has)  . . .  promised a demonstration in Florida that’s coming up in October. And there will be some people from the U.S. government there watching, and hopefully they will be convinced that it’s real and that will change the attitudes.”

Storms confirms what others have suggested, Rossi has business interests in the U.S. and will try to build at the Florida factory he owns a full one megawatt unit made up of one hundred cells similar to the single cell seen at the Italy demonstration.

For now the news has come in a bit distant and subjective form.  While little is known about the technology, Rossi has built up a lot of street type credibility – and there is no motive in sight for some sort of financial or business misbehaving.

This writer isn’t doing a lot of thinking or imagining about the Rossi effort.  But there is certainly a discernable feeling of satisfaction that the science so long denigrated has a foothold in the real world of business and industry.

When the orders fill and business reduces the grid demand some in established science are going to be much more busy with the “why weren’t we” while others will be looking for what other cold fusion ideas might go commercial.  Not putting your pants down on purpose is lesson well worth repeating  – again.


334 Comments so far

  1. Albert Kong on March 9, 2011 8:49 AM

    I have read about the close mindedness of the middle ages where we presume that religious influences were the dominant factor. Never thought I would be living through it myself in our present modern age. The factors appear to be more dogmatic egocentricism and economic now rather than religious. I am wondering whether that was the case too in the past age.

    Kudos to Dr. Storms (in essence a chemist) for acknowledging the breakthrough of competitors Engs. Rossi and Focardi (engineers) for the sake of the science. Very admirable.

  2. BFast on March 9, 2011 12:23 PM

    I am excited to see another report on the Rossi machine on new energy. Back in February published a report on an 18 hour test done by a semi-independent scientist ( 18 hours provides a lot of proof! However, the scientist that did the study is a colleague of Rossi, so the challenge of true independence hasn’t been reached.

    This small machine put out about 20 horsepower for 18 hours using a 1 liter fuel container(nickel and hydrogen). There is no evidence that it ran out of fuel. If this thing isn’t a fraud, if the nickel used is not some specific hard to refine isotope (hard to believe as Rossi doesn’t seem to have that advanced of equipment) then the world is about to change.

    Despite the rise in oil prices I’m holding off investing as I think when this thing breaks through the glass ceiling the price of oil will be rocked.

  3. Andrea Rossi’s and Sergio Focardi’s Cold Fusion Reactor Status update « sourceofrealnews on March 9, 2011 1:30 PM

    […] Source: New Energy and Fuel. […]

  4. Mikaela on March 10, 2011 4:57 AM

    Chat with Andrea Rossi tomorrow about his invention!!!
    mvh MN

  5. marco on March 12, 2011 10:52 AM

    @Albert Kong, agree with you, please notice that Dr. Focardi is not an engineer but rather a theoretical physicist involved since more than 2 decades in the research field of LENR at University of Bologna, Italy.

  6. JP Straley on March 13, 2011 9:31 AM

    In light of the Japanese earthquake and the nuclear power plant problems, the Rossi technology could not have come at a better time.

    If it is unequivocally demonstrated, who can doubt that Japan will be first in line!

    JP Straley

  7. John Jan on March 14, 2011 1:52 AM

    Andrea Rossi and Sergio Focardi Ni-H generator works indeed. But it has nothing to do with nuclear reactions or fusion. It is rediscovered ancient technology. IT IS ALCHEMY.

  8. Wtf John Jan on March 17, 2011 10:14 AM

    WTF John Jan? Are you an idiot? You suck at life.

  9. BFast on March 17, 2011 10:55 AM

    WTF, John Jan’s opinions are unusual at minimum but you are being vicious. It is not called for.

  10. John Jan on March 17, 2011 11:27 AM

    I know what I claim, and some people are getting very nervous and violent, it is not my problem.
    It is just beginning.
    I do not want to create flame, but I have been contacted and I know it has nothing to do with any sort of fusion, although reaction is producing copper and 20x energy excess.

    I can just end with this quote:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

    Arthur Schopenhauer

    PS. We are now at the second stage.

  11. b-bob on March 18, 2011 1:28 AM

    @ John Jan

    obvious troll is obvious…

  12. Ash on March 18, 2011 7:21 AM

    If this experiment is genuine, explain then Rossi and Focardi, if it uses very little Hydrogen you could could extract the H2 from water to run the machine, using the power that the machine produces or generates for electrolysis, so why do they need an external bottle of H2? in theory, the consumables will be only Nickel powder and water


  13. Albert Kong on March 18, 2011 8:52 PM

    @marco thanks for the correction. Very impressive qualifications of Dr. Focardi. Now that is what I don’t understand. As someone with a little academic training myself just the suggestion that these gentlemen are committing fraud is obviously disingenuous. Detractors there will be, and can understand the confusion with established theory, but experimental results are experimental results unless there is some mass delusion going on.

  14. bindlepete on March 19, 2011 9:09 AM

    I have been facinated by the technology since I learned that MIT massaged the helium 4 and tritium out of their data when they duplicated the F&P work back in 1990.

    I am delighted that it is now going mainstreal and there is a a lot of crow to be eaten by the silverbacks of physics who have denied the data. I just wish the crows were having a feat on them.

    Remember MIT had it’s own megga program to protect at Princeton with the Tokomac. So much for the impartiality of science. Now, Los Alamos has been busy but apparently throttled by the politicos of science. Where is our Government and Chief Science Advisor?

  15. john s. gordon on March 19, 2011 2:43 PM

    let’s hope it is real, it would be a boon to humanity.
    i am familiar with a patent examiner or a journal editor denying issuance or publication because “it does not agree with published data”. well sometimes the published data are wrong, and sometimes the second applicant on a particular invention gets the patent protection because the first examiner didn’t do his job, or was prejudiced.

  16. BFast on March 19, 2011 4:04 PM

    bindlepete, “I am delighted that it is now going mainstream”

    Oh I wish. It will go snake after deniability is gone, but it won’t go anywhere until it breaks through that barrier. I am not yet ready to share this news with my brother, for instance, because I don’t trust it yet.

  17. John Jan on March 21, 2011 6:35 AM

    We are entering in the second stage .. violent opposition and fact denial .. it is just an established routine in the revelation of epochal discoveries.

  18. Neil Taylor on March 22, 2011 7:06 PM

    The facts are in and the establishment will eat much crow one day soon. A new and better world is close at hand thanks to these scientists who stuck with and pursued their beliefs…

  19. Galen Haugh on March 23, 2011 10:02 AM

    I’m glad the E-Cat will first be implemented on a commercial scale in Athens. Both Greece and Italy are working together through a consortium of energy companies from both countries to adopt this form of energy. Implementing it first in Greece and Italy also bypasses any energy interests tied to Big Oil or Hot Fusion that would thwart successful implementation. After that, you can bet countries like Japan and South Korea, who currently import the vast majority of their energy, will implement this as soon as possible. I forsee a replacement of the older nuclear plants in Japan with this newest technology, especially in light of their current state of disrepair and destruction. I envision that the US and England will be the very last to get it–both in terms of psychological acceptance and in actually generating energy for these countries. You thwart and fight progress and you pay the price. Both China and Russia will accept and implement cold fusion before the US and UK. How sad, for it will put the US and UK further in the hole of economic meltdown.

  20. Fred on March 23, 2011 6:45 PM

    Elsewhere I’ve seen claims that there was a problem with the demo in Italy – something about the steam having to escape very fast if their claims regarding the rate of water boiled were correct. Perhaps someone should check that.

  21. thomas on March 24, 2011 5:30 PM

    Simple Question: Why doesn’t Dr. Rossi put one of his devices on a secured display showing no outside power source and running a simple motor or widget of his choice for three months? Put it on a website where anyone could view it at any time to verify its continued motion. I guarantee that in a few weeks he would have a multitude of offers rolling in.

    Why doesn’t he do something like this to put all doubts to rest? He claims that a group of his devices have been running a factory for two years.

    Why doesn’t he just run a simple example of his discovery for everyone to see?

    Simple Answer: Because he can’t.

    Simple Question to you: If you had invented a device that would cure mankind’s need for energy, that would literally save millions of lives all over the world by just providing unending power to let’s say a water pump to provide fresh clean water to children in 3rd world countries, would you not be brimming with joy hardly able to contain it? Would you not want to prove right away that it was true?

    This has all the ear markings of a false claim such as the now infamous STEORN over-unity device.

    They as others like them claimed “over-unity” and stated that they were coming out with a manufactured product soon. That “soon” turned into a year because they had to have verification of their device. That year turned into another year and another and so on…. You get the picture.

    Rossi stated that they were going to go public with a manufactured device made commercially available in 3 months. That was in January. That was cool and promising. Now they are saying that they have to study it for a year. That was a very big red flag!!!!

    Simple Question: I thought they have been running several of them in series to power a factory for two years. Are you telling me that two scientists haven’t been conducting studies of their world changing device all that time?

    This is just the beginning of the never ending delays.

    Simply put, If Rossi has what he says he has, then he could just simply prove it.

  22. John Jan on March 24, 2011 5:35 PM

    The Factory will start in October this year! He is not asking for money up front! Not a dime! He will sell electrical energy for 1 cent of US$ per kWh.

  23. BFast on March 24, 2011 7:51 PM

    Thomas, “Why doesn’t Dr. Rossi put one of his devices on a secured display…”

    And if he did, I would suspect that he doctored the display. He would prove nothing.

    Thomas, “If you had invented a device that would cure mankind’s need for energy, that would literally save millions of lives…”

    Rossi claims an invention that the scientific world views as impossible. He is going headlong into developing an undeniable 1 megawatt plant. Then mass manufacturing facilities will have to be geared up, the transition from heat to usable energy will have to be made, etc. You can’t get from point a (a working prototype) to point b (the thing implemented around the world) overnight.

  24. thomas on March 24, 2011 7:56 PM

    John Jan,
    Just watch for the release date. That date will be extended and extended and… you get the point. Also, where is the factory? Where is its location so that the manufacture can be verified?

    The fact that no money is being asked for is not really proof because a lot of scammers don’t ask for money but fool you into offering money to invest. Wouldn’t you invest in a device that would solve the world’s energy problems? I know I would. If I believed it I would beg to give my money away.

    No, it’s all too easy to verify what you have in today’s high tech age.
    JJ, if I am proved wrong and a working unit is produced and verified, I will eat crow for the whole next year once a week. I hear they are high in protein.

    I have also invented a perpetual crow catcher just in case. I haven’t put it out in the yard to catch any crows yet and no one except my friends have verified that it really works, but I know it does, but I don’t know how. You can’t count on them falling out of the sky, but that is happening more and more lately.

  25. thomas on March 24, 2011 8:15 PM

    I hear you, but you are preaching to the choir. I would love for this device to be real and solve today’s problems. My wishing for it to be true does not make it so.

    The very simple fact is, this device can be proven “real” very easily. However, it has not. There is no basis my believing in it. I cannot see the wind yet I know it exists and believe in it as I see it move leaves, trees, and sometimes houses where I live. I see nothing here.

    These are scientists. They live by pursuit, discovery and verification and know how important it is, which makes this whole deal all the more questionable.

  26. John Jan on March 24, 2011 8:55 PM

    Dear Thomas,
    Wait .. only till October 2011, perhaps even before, but not longer than that.

  27. thomas on March 25, 2011 5:20 AM

    Ok JJ, I’m not unreasonable, waiting cost me nothing and time will go by no matter the outcome.

  28. mstrom88 on March 29, 2011 6:46 PM

    I believe it is prudent and justified to have a study of the technology and participation of CERN and others scientists in the community prior to unleashing what is likely to surpass even the most impressive personal electronic devices iPhone,etc. in terms is demand.

  29. BFast on March 29, 2011 7:06 PM

    mstrom88, “what is likely to surpass even the most impressive personal electronic devices iPhone,etc.”

    You understate. This technology, if real, will be at least as revolutionary as the internet, at least as revolutionary as the telephone, or the cellphone system. Actually, as each of these technology leaps did not significantly leave whole industries in the dust, one could realistically say it will be much bigger than any of these major industries. (Oil will be obsolete, solar, wind, geothermal, natural gas, coal — all obsolete.) New technologies will bloom. A few obvious ones are greenhouses and water desalination. This technology, if real, will be radically transformative.

  30. mstrom88 on March 29, 2011 8:52 PM

    Agreed,an understatment to be sure. My rather limited understanding of the history of the idea of inputing a smaller amount of energy to gain a sustainable harnessable amount of energy without creating a ” big mess” (ie spent fuel rods and the like) hasn’t been a reproducable phenomenon…. until now. I’d like to have your thoughts-

  31. Stanley J Dunne on April 1, 2011 11:33 AM

    It appears very amateurish that Rossi & Focardi cannot demonstrate to the world an output result of electrical potential from the input. There are many ways to convert heat into electrical output and drive motors or lights.
    I would love to see this a success,but like many others I am very sceptical. There are plenty of fraudsters out there.

  32. John Jan on April 1, 2011 3:21 PM

    Within this year they will build 1MW power plant! They are NOT asking money, they will sell energy for 1 cent per kWh. As simple as that.

  33. Bryan Elliott on April 2, 2011 2:47 PM

    Which isotope of Nickel is used?

  34. BFast on April 2, 2011 6:29 PM

    Based on one of the releases, it is clear that Mr. Rossi has not selected a particular isotope of nickel. It seems that the naturally occurring mix of nickel isotopes works just fine. Also, however, it seems that only some of the nickel produces a reaction, so it might be found that selecting for a specific isotope will produce huge efficiency gains. As it is the thing, as presented, is so vastly more efficient than anything seen before, so if such improvements aren’t available, its still mega-revolutionary.

  35. Bryan Elliott on April 2, 2011 11:48 PM

    Well, just doing the mass->energy calculations, the only feasible isotope for a fusion reaction is:
    58Ni + 1H -> 59Cu

    That said, it’s endothermic. What’s exothermic is that 59Cu has a short half-life and decays via positron emission with more energy than it takes to do the original fusion.

    That sequence of events is consistent with the construction; a fuel cell is a suitable medium for utilizing the production of positrons as an electricity source. The result is an energy excess of about 600 kWh/g, which if his energy collection is only 16% efficient, gets the claimed number of about 100 MeV (and a lot of gammas (o_o) )

    I’d be interested in what magic is used to get the hydrogen and nickel close enough to fuse. I could see maybe something between a PEMFC and a farnsworth fusor.

  36. Bryan Elliott on April 2, 2011 11:49 PM

    Edit: 100 kWh/g

  37. BFast on April 3, 2011 12:11 AM

    Bryan Elliot, thanks for the nuclear physics/chemistry lesson. This is certainly outside of my expertise. However, what we do know is that this reaction seems to take place without significant gamma ray radiation. (If I recall one report correctly, it seems to emit a burst of gammas during shutdown.)

    I appreciate what Dr. Levi said, “If so, we have a new physics”. At some point, if the Rossi engine isn’t a hoax, the world of nuclear physics is going to have to climb into a cave and figure out why reality is differing from established knowledge; and we know that in such battles, reality always wins over established knowledge. Such are the most exciting moments in science.

  38. John Jan on April 3, 2011 4:17 AM

    – very mild or zero radioactivity copper ash
    – neutrons are absent, so it is NOT a nuclear reaction, not even LENR
    – gammas are absent
    – Gentlemen, IT WORKS and it is not expensive!

    Columbus has discovered West Indes, according to theory. Well no, it was a new continent, not expected, not predicted by the theory of the old world.

    Andrea Rossi has re-discovered, serendipitously a new science. It is alChemy. Alchemy is two elements used to make a third, and so this reaction fulfills this definition.

  39. BFast on April 3, 2011 11:30 AM

    John Jan, “Gentlemen, IT WORKS”. I would caution against counting the chickens before they hatch. This technology has hardly been validated yet. I don’t believe any formal examination of the resultant materials has been done. Dr. Levi says that this is the next test he wants to run — to analyze the nickel before a reaction, to run the machine, then to study the product. I vote that the jury is out as to the specific nature of this reaction.

  40. Peter Roe on April 3, 2011 1:50 PM

    Bryan Elliot’s comments and suggested mechanism are extremely interesting. I think this is the first speculation I have seen that appears to be fully consistent with the reported facts.

    “What’s exothermic is that 59Cu has a short half-life and decays via positron emission with more energy than it takes to do the original fusion.”

    Actually, if one reads all reports carefully, it does seem that some gamma is produced while the R-F fusor is operating (there is apparently a 12mm lead shield around the reaction canister). Also, there is mention that all traces of radioactivity subside ‘a few minutes’ after the process is ended – implying that there is indeed a short half-life nuclear decay process involved.

    I think Bryan may be on the right track but sadly do not have the knowledge to join the speculation concerning the ‘catalysation’ of the fusion phenomenon.

  41. Peter Roe on April 3, 2011 2:09 PM

    Of course, the concept of a ‘secret ingredient’ chemical catalyser might be a red herring. If heat alone is required to maintain the reaction, then it should be self sustaining at the levels of energy concerned. A thermal runaway could even be a possibility, but there is no indication that this ever happens.

    But if some of the electrical input is required for some other purpose such as for example generation of some type of magnetic field or radio frequency input etc., then this would explain the need for a constant electrical supply.

    Just some idle speculation…

  42. BFast on April 3, 2011 3:12 PM

    Peter Roe, “If heat alone is required to maintain the reaction, then it should be self sustaining at the levels of energy concerned.”

    Reading the analysis if the 18 hour run, the input power is approximately equal to that required for the instrumentation, in other words it is self sustaining. Further, the reaction seems to be started purely by heating it up, it is not electrolytic.

    “A thermal runaway could even be a possibility, but there is no indication that this ever happens.” I see otherwise. Rossi shows off some nickel that he claims was melted in some of his reaction experiments. If the reaction requires fine dust of nickel, the reaction will naturally shut down as soon as the nickel goes molten and becomes a blob. Pretty cool safety system.

  43. Peter Roe on April 4, 2011 3:25 AM

    BFast – I stand corrected, and can see that the process is probably intrinsically safe due to its ‘failsafe’ nature. However I don’t think this significantly affects my ‘idle speculation’.

    As I have understood the process, a relatively high input of about 1kW is required to heat the nickel to the point where the fusion process is initiated, and thereafter a maintenance input of 400W is required.

    This seems to me to be superfluous in view of the amount of heat generated by the exothermic reaction, so I am just wondering if there may be some other internal electrical apparatus involved in the process. It occurs to me that some means of ionising the hydrogen to produce a soup of free protons and electrons might materially affect the threshold for fusion that Bryan Elliot wondered about.

    Probably not – just trying to promote further speculation by those far more knowledgeable about this field than myself!

  44. wade on April 4, 2011 1:10 PM

    The reaction described in the original paper and the patent application is a multi-stage fusion reaction, followed by a matter – anti-matter annihilation reaction.

    Nickel and Hydrogen fuse to make an unstable copper isotope.

    The copper isotope quickly decays and ultimately ends up emitting an anti-particle, positron I think, which gets annihilated.

    The energy released from the exothermic positron-electron annihilation is far greater than the binding energy of the nucleus of the atoms, resulting in each cycle have a net exothermic output.

    If the equations they presented are correct, the net energy released is truly spectacular.

    If one mole of Nickel reacted to Completion with one mole of hydrogen, the annihilation of the resulting positrons with the electrons will release a total of 98.7 gigajoules of energy per MOLE of nickel and hydrogen.

    This means that one MOLE of nickel plus one MOLE of hydrogen theoretically gives 3.13 Kilowatts of heat for a full year, or about 10 kilowatts for 4 months.

    Also, if you actually do the math for yourself, the Nickel + hydrogen = copper reactions are not actually endothermic. Nickel + Hydrogen is always more massive than the resulting Copper. The missing mass is a net exothermic reaction.

  45. Roseland67 on April 4, 2011 4:53 PM

    Peter Roe,

    Possible the 400w of continual utility based input is for “power quality” to run the control circuit.
    IF the reaction is in fact self sustaining, the reactor power output may be of such an unpredictable “quality” that the control circuit cannot consistently/reliably
    perform it’s functions.

  46. Peter Roe on April 5, 2011 3:33 AM

    Hi Roseland67.

    “Possible the 400w of continual utility based input is for “power quality” to run the control circuit.”

    That’s how I understand the system to work. However the device does not produce any electrical output, so all control/monitoring circuits must be powered externally.

    A ‘control system’ would normally comprise sensors and trim systems, not requiring significant power to operate. Demand from any contactors, motorised valves or similar items in the control cct would presumably be intermittent, not continuous.

    If the circulating water pump’s power supply is included in the 400W figure then I suppose that it is conceivable that powerful pressure pump might use this kind of power, but I don’t think this is the case. The ‘clacking’ sound in the video demonstration would indicate that a low-power diaphragm type pump is used.

    So I’m still a bit mystified by exactly what 400W of power might be needed for, hence my (uninformed) speculation about a possible ioniser power unit or some other currently secret continuous power-consuming electrical kit either within the control box, or the fusor unit itself.

    In one interview, Rossi is asked directly why the unit can’t be made to be self sustaining, and he replies something along the lines that the unit ‘works better’ with an externally powered heater. This seems a tad vague.

    There are apparently 5 cables (twin core or coax assumed) connecting the reactor unit and its control box. One (or 2 if single core) will be the power supply to the internal heater and one must be a temperature sensor cable. It would be very interesting to know exactly what the others do!

  47. Peter Roe on April 5, 2011 4:22 AM

    I have now learned that an electrically operated pressure control valve is used to modulate hydrogen pressure in the reactor to control the reaction temperature.

    So that’s up to 2 more cables explained (power/control?) but still not the requirement for a ‘maintenance’ power input, variously reported as 400/700W. As the rate of fusion can apparently be precisely controlled through regulation of hydrogen pressure in the reaction vessel, any additional electrical heating still seems to be rather redundant.

  48. BFast on April 5, 2011 10:13 AM

    You will notice that in the 18 hour run the input power was only 80w, rather than 400. I puzzled for a long time about the difference. It turns out that when they ran the first test, there was a crack or something in the reaction chamber. The 80 watts is attributed to control system power.

  49. Peter Roe on April 5, 2011 2:15 PM

    OK. I can see my case fading rapidly!

  50. Bryan Elliott on April 5, 2011 4:03 PM

    “if you actually do the math for yourself, the Nickel + hydrogen = copper reactions are not actually endothermic.”

    I did the math. That’s what led me to the opinion I hold above – that the reaction, if it works at all, must be:
    58Ni + 1H -> 59Cu
    59Cu -> 59Ni + B+ + y

    This is because no stable isotope of Ni plus H is heavier than the resultant Cu isotope. There are non-stable variants that work, but we’re working with bog-standard nickel (or we’re working with a non-feasible fuel).

    I have a hypothesis for the “Then Magic Happens” step of fusion, based on Rossi’s original work towards fuel cell catalysis using finely powdered nickel.

    The bond length of hydrogen is about 106-112 pm at room temperature. The crystal structure of nickel places its atoms about 220 pm apart at room temperature. It may be that at nicely high pressures/temperatures, these numbers meet up, and the physical structure of the nickel and hydrogen become such that the electron shells overwhelm each other in places, resulting in fusion.

    I could see a little EM jiggering helping the process along

  51. Brian Westenhaus on April 5, 2011 9:56 PM

    That looks good, Bryan. Maybe you’re in reach of figuring out the additive or catalysts.


  52. BFast on April 5, 2011 10:32 PM

    I know I’m a little over my head here, but common nickel seems to contain isotopes: 58,60,61,62, and 64. Copper is stable in isotopes: 63 and 65. So is there a possible reaction Ni62 + H = Cu63 or Ni64 + H = Cu65?

  53. Supermario on April 7, 2011 3:09 PM

    Well folks,
    as an Italian I wish heartily that Messrs Rossi and Focardi succeed with their E-Cat reactor.
    That would not only be another gift of Italian science to the world but would greatly help progress for all mankind.
    Firstly fossil fuels would quickly become redundant (oil majors won’t like that).
    Pollution would quickly become a thing of the past and Earth would be healthier.
    People’s intelligence and hard work would again be the main tool of progress.
    Where work is a value of life, people would no longer pay idle laggards who live on oil trade.
    Cultures that do not value work will have to think again.
    Muslims, without oil money, might finally realize they also need an Enlightenment, to start using Reason and accept that Muhammad was just a personality cult master and that the time has come to discard his absurd Koran.
    Otherwise, without working, without easy cash, we’ll see them leave their Cadillacs and mount camels again.
    Some of you will call me a dreamer but then let me dream in style!

  54. Peter Roe on April 8, 2011 3:00 AM

    Re. ‘catalysis’ of a nuclear reaction in the Rossi-Focardi device, the latest information ( includes data that indicates that there is no ‘additive’ in the nickel ‘fuel’.

    The analysis was carried out by independent observers on samples of the fuel used to charge a reactor, and its composition after running for a while. The results apparently showed that while the initial fuel is pure nickel, the ‘ash’ contains 10% copper and 11% iron. I think this is the first mention of iron, and I’m sure that those who have previously speculated on the possible ‘nuclear chemistry’ can read something into this.

    If fully factual, this report seems to indicate that either the reaction takes place of its own accord when the correct temperature and pressure conditions are met (i.e., no catalysts are required), or that it is ‘tipped over the edge’ in some other way. The latest run (4.7kW output)apparently used 330W of ‘maintenance’ power, 300W of which is not accounted for by control systems.

  55. Phillip Newell on April 12, 2011 10:39 AM


    Dr. Rossi has admitted that his Ni is enriched with Ni 62 and Ni 64 and that these are the isotopes that cause the reaction. Without knowing how much enrichment is done the analysis done by the Swedes does not really give any clues except that their analysis yielded the same isotopic mix in the remaining Ni. So does this mean that when the Ni powder is reacted back to the natural level of isotopes it is “spent”?

    Regards to All

    Phil Newell

  56. BFast on April 12, 2011 11:50 AM

    “Dr. Rossi has admitted that his Ni is enriched with Ni 62 and Ni 64”

    I have read nowhere where Rossi suggests that his nickel is “enriched”. Rather I have read Rossi’s claim that he is using natural nickel. If you check out wikipedia entry “Isotopes of nickel” you will see that natural nickel contains both isotopes 62 and 64.

  57. Phillip Newell on April 12, 2011 12:58 PM


    Check out Rossi’s site:

    His “processing” of the nickel powder enriches the content of Ni 62 & Ni 64


    Phil Newell

  58. falsemail on April 15, 2011 7:13 AM

    Peter Roe on April 8, 2011 3:00 AM

    He mentioned the presence of iron.
    I think it is crucial.
    In my opinion iron is the ‘secret’ catalyst which tears off H-H bond.
    It is the ‘same’ as used in Haber-Bosch ammonia synthesis. I guess, this is the origin of 11% iron in ‘ash’.

  59. Phillip Newell on April 15, 2011 9:35 AM


    I find the presence of iron intriguing but could it have started out as manganese?


    Phil Newell

  60. falsemail on April 15, 2011 11:03 AM


    I really do not know it. As I’ve written ‘I guess’.
    But the fact that the parameters at ammonia synthesis is similar to this one and that case iron catalyze the forming of atomic H and I’ve just read an interview with Focardi ( stating the following:

    “And the secret purpose of this compound is, I believe, to facilitated the formation of atomic hydrogen INSTEAD of molecular hydrogen, hydrogen Because Typically settles down into molecules, But if one has a molecule, it can not penetrate into the nucleus. So I think the additive is used to this purpose: it forms atomic hydrogen, Which penetrates into the nucleus.”

    I thought that it is more than a coincidence. It seems to me that independent observers has uncovered something ‘important’ by chance.

    So if I were them I would try iron as a catalyst at the first place. Maybe I’m wrong but I’m not a scientist.



  61. Peter Roe on April 15, 2011 12:40 PM

    One other thing. According to the description of the ‘mini-cat’ device used in the new test, the reaction chamber is a stainless steel cylinder mounted concentrically with a section of 50mm copper pipe which carries the cooling water. The heater unit is described as being fitted to the exterior of the copper pipe, and the pictures seem to show a toroidal device mounted in this way.

    Incidentally, the PDF report also states “At the end of the horizontal section there is an auxiliary electric heater to initialize the burning and also to act as a safety if the heat evolution should get out of control.” I don’t see anything corresponding to this in the pictures, and can’t see the purpose of the ‘main’ heater if there is another heater that initiates the process.

    The problem I see with the arrangement as described is that if the toroidal ‘main’ heater is a resistance type as stated in the PDF report, then as it is separated from the s/s cell by an annulus filled with water, it would simply not be able to heat the reaction cell to any significant extent.

    If I have understood the construction of the apparatus correctly, then the only form of heater that would work in this configuration would be an induction heater. This would be entirely compatible with the toroidal shape apparent in the photos.

    In this case the (60Hz?) electromagnetic field would pass through the copper and act to heat the nickel contents of the cell directly by induction, as nickel is ferromagnetic (the s/s casing might also be heated slightly, depending on composition of the s/s).

    Q. If the above speculation is correct, could an oscillating magnetic field possibly have any effect on the threshold for fusion, and/or on maintenance of the process?

    (The link to the description and PDF report referred to above is included in my previous post.)

  62. Phillip Newell on April 16, 2011 8:13 PM


    Do you mean does the ‘magnetorestrictive force play in the possible lattice fractal fusion effect from the oscillating magnetic field? Good question.


  63. Peter Roe on April 17, 2011 4:38 AM

    Hi Phil.

    That is one possibility I had in mind. An overall oscillating field, plus micro fields generated by eddy currents in the nickel particles, might generate a lot of distortions (additive and substractive) in the lattices. This could conceivably open opportunities for intrusion of hydrogen atoms. There would be quite a bit of electronic chaos too, with spins being wrenched in all directions, plus plenty of ionisation to break up H2 molecules.

    If the nickel lattice dimensions expand and then change again as fields collapse or reverse, perhaps this might ‘pinch’ some intruded hydrogen atoms in such a way that they can’t escape and are forced into close contact with nickel nuclei?

    Sadly as an ex-microbiologist I can only speculate in the vaguest terms in this area, and am probably talking complete bllks.

  64. Malcolm Lear on April 17, 2011 7:36 AM

    I’ve looked carefully at the design and the external heater is a standard 230V 300W band heater usually used to heat nozzles in plastic extrusion production. Although not utilized in an efficient way, the heat will transfer through conduction from the copper water jacket to the stainless pipe containing the Nickel charge. I suspect this method way used because it uses off the shelf parts and makes for easier maintainance.
    The copper jacket around the core is constructed using 2 standard pipe reducers (2-1/2″ to 1-1/4″) and a cut down T (2-1/2″,2-1/2″,1″.
    The auxiliary heater can be seen at the end of the 1-1/4″ pipe.

  65. Peter Roe on April 18, 2011 4:08 AM

    I would have to agree that the stainless steel clad component mounted on the copper pipe looks like a standard industrial band heater. It is apparently marked ‘300W, 50mm’, which indicates that the diameter of the largest of the copper pipe sections is 50mm/2″. The Swedish observer says: “The tube was made of copper and according to Rossi, the reaction chamber is hidden inside in the central part and made of stainless steel.”

    The following structural description is provided by Hank Mills of PESN, who does not appear to have been present at the latest demonstration. “This new model of E-Cat consists of a stainless steel reactor vessel which is placed inside of a copper pipe. Water flows between the copper pipe and the steel reactor vessel. There are inlets for both water and hydrogen gas. The reactor is activated by current flowing through a resistor which is wrapped around the outside of the copper pipe. When a certain temperature is reached the reaction begins.”

    The item marked ‘auxiliary’ in the photo appears to be an iron screwed fitting with two relatively thin wires potted in. The device furthest away from the camera appears to have a blanking/access plug only in this location. Obviously there is no way of telling from the information available what the two wires are connected to internally, but it has been stated (observer report) that there is a secondary heater that can be used to initiate the exothermic process and also to act as an emergency shut-off.

    There are obviously some problems with this picture of the construction and operation of the device.

    1) Main heater.
    From from the description by the Swedish observers, the cooling water is flowing continuously from the point that the heater is switched on, so I think that my earlier observation that no significant amount of heat could reach the central cell under these conditions stands.

    Even if the flow rate was very low, the maximum temperature that could be achieved in the cell would be 100 deg. C, i.e., the boiling point of water. This is surely insignificant in terms of the processes assumed to be involved.

    2) Auxiliary heater.
    The ‘mini e-cat’ device is not a commercial design, it is simply an apparatus designed to demonstrate a process. As such it is difficult to see the purpose of a supposed ‘backup’ for the main heater. If the main heater were to fail during a demo it could simply be replaced, and the process re-started. If the ‘auxiliary heater’ can initiate the exothermic reaction on its own, then what is the purpose of the ‘main’ heater? It could simply be removed, and the ‘auxiliary’ used to initiate and control the process.

    To me it seems more likely that the potted wires are in fact the leads for a thermocouple monitoring the reaction cell temperature, and that the plug provides access to the internal cell for addition/removal of fuel.

    In either case, the 300W input is trivial compared with the 4.7kW equivalent thermal o/p of the exothermic reaction. To produce this much heat output the contents of the 50cc reaction cell must run at several hundred degrees C.

    It is difficult to see how removing the electrical heating input – which represents only about 6% of the thermal energy involved once the exothermic process has started – could cause it to shut down. Releasing hydrogen pressure would be the simple and fast way to kill the primary reaction in an emergency.

    Overall, I don’t think the descriptions stack up as they stand. I can only see two configurations that might work, both differing from the information in the report: (a) the stainless steel cell is in fact a twin-walled vessel surrounding a reduced diameter section of copper pipe and in turn enclosed by a resistance heater, or (b) the stainless casing (which could well be taken from a band heater) in fact houses an induction coil as I suggested earlier.

    If (a) is the case, then a significant proportion of the heat generated in the reaction cell would flow into the heater unit, and some strange smells might be expected during operation! I guess we have to await some further information in order to clarify exactly how these gadgets function.

    Apologies – another rather long (and perhaps rather tedious) post!

  66. Malcolm on April 18, 2011 7:04 AM

    I think I know what’s going on in that reactor and its quite smart. The process requires atomic hydrogen not molecular and it would not make sense to have all the reactors connected up to a high pressure cylinder. The solution is to produce the hydrogen locally using electrolysis. The main heater initiates the reactor but does not regulate it. Regulation is achieved by controlling the electrolysis voltage. Rossi’s assertion that the ‘auxiliary’ can be used as an emergency shutoff then make sense. The two wires seen at the front of the reactor are the supply lines to the electrode/s and possible a temperature sensor. Electrolysis provides the correct type of hydrogen and at sufficient pressure.

  67. Zephir on April 20, 2011 4:53 AM

    IMO the cold fusion of hydrogen and nickel can work at room temperature, because the repulsive Coulomb barrier is relevant for naked nickel nuclei only, i.e. these completely ionized one. The atom nuclei stripped of all electrons can be prepared easily at the case of lightweight atoms, like the hydrogen or hellium – but heavier atoms are surprisingly reluctant against the complete lost of their electrons. The energy (density) required for complete ionization of nickel nuclei is comparable to the energy density required for its fission – which basically means, the electrons at the bottom of nickel orbitals are forming the nearly homogeneous energetic continuum with the underlying atom nuclei. So, when the nickel atom is full of electrons, these electrons are balancing/shielding the repulsive forces of atom nuclei for tiny proton, which could literally “swim” through nickel orbitals into its core.

    The ignorance of cold fusion from the side of both mainstream science, both government demonstrates clearly their actual motivations. And it’s not the prosperity of of human civilization anymore, only the interests of close group of people. Actually we stuck in medieval times again.

  68. Marc on April 20, 2011 11:05 AM

    In response to doubting Thomas


  69. Marc on April 20, 2011 11:07 AM

    I think the world military industrial complex will have to cause an accident soon in regards to the machines safety parameters to protect the financial interest of the current establishments of the world.

  70. Marc on April 20, 2011 11:15 AM

    There can only be technological breakthroughs discovered in relation to weaponry or communications, never ever energy production. Don’t you know the rules? Well you better learn em and never break em or you may be suicided. This country is pathetic and i am not talking about Greece or Italy. I speak of the unites fascist staes of exxon/northrop/grumman/federal reserve.

  71. akre on April 21, 2011 4:56 PM

    As Peter Roe writes there is no possibility in my mind it will be possible to heat the center compartment containing the nickel as described.

    The only way it will work is if the powder is contained in the *outer* tube. The water tube is then run straight through in the middle which is of course the natural way to do it. The heater will then create a temperature gradient from the other band heater to the cooling tube in the middle.

  72. Peter Roe on April 22, 2011 4:32 AM

    Although I also suggested this arrangement (double walled outer reaction cell) as a possibility, I do not think it is actually the case.

    The core of the device once the fusion process has been initiated, operates at relatively high temperatures, possibly in the ‘dull red heat’ zone of 600 degrees plus. If only the inner part is water cooled by an internal through-pipe, the outer part in contact with the supposed ‘main heater’ would be uncooled. In fact if we don’t question the decription as given, it would actually be further heated by input from the band heater.

    With insulation confining this heat, the band heater, or at least the exposed plastic cable supplying it from the underside, would be damaged or destroyed. All available evidence actually indicates that the core reaction cell is efficiently cooled, which implies a cooling jacket completely surrounding the cell, as indicated by Rossi. This in turn suggests that the ‘main heater’ cannot function as described, as it is not in contact with the reaction cell.

    One feature that intrigues me is the hydrogen injection arrangement at right angles to the supposed orientation of the s/s reaction cell. This does not make engineering sense, due to the difficulty of constructing a connection through the outer cooling jacket, to the cell.

    From a constructional point of view it would have made much more sense to rotate the arrangement so that cooling water exited at 90 degrees, and the hydrogen connection was then made longitudinally, i.e., on the same axis as the assumed tubular reaction cell.

    If on the other hand the reaction cell is in line with the hydrogen injection arrangments, i.e., at ninety degrees to the water flow, then there does not seem to be any way for the ‘auxiliary heater ‘ in the end of the tubular body of the device to be connected to it.

    Obviously there must be a reason for doing things ‘the hard way’, but it is difficult to see what this might be.

  73. Jared Miller on May 2, 2011 10:55 PM

    It is historically quite normal for the scientific community to overlook, disspell, and criticize radically diferent ideas until proven.

  74. Jarek on May 5, 2011 3:59 AM

    If this reactor is real, there are problems with using thermal cycle to produce electricity – especially for using in spacecraft, where is a problem to drain thermal energy out.
    Maybe there is some direct way to produce electricity? – for example construct reactor shielding such that beta radiation can go through its inner part and is mainly captured by more external electrodes – these electrons have to get back to water through the inner shielding – creating charge flow.
    Such reactor could be also used directly as space propulsion system using created high energy electrons(and gammas) – in opposite to the rest, just make one side of reactor transparent to beta radiation.

  75. Gil on May 11, 2011 1:08 AM

    I am interested in constructing a device to see if I can replicate some results.
    If there is someone who would like to do this also and, share information in progress, please contact me.
    Even if we can get 5 times output energy, more then we put in, we will have succeeded beyond our dreams.
    You would need a little bit of an engineering or science background, to do this safely.
    email me at:

    I will just add one bit of info for you.
    The device has a central heater which is used to both start and control the reaction.
    I will not explain how this works at this time.

  76. Larry on May 13, 2011 5:00 AM

    I wonder what the established energy (oil) corporations make of it all. I would actually worry for the safety of Andrea Rossi & Sergio Focardi were it not for the Government and economic interests in the technology in Greece and Italy. As Greece holds the vast majority of the nickel deposits in Europe, I am sure they are seeing this as a massive opportunity to put their economy back on track. Whatever one thinks of Tesla and Reich, the fact that the prevailing political, legal and industrial powers of the day effectively silenced them and destroyed as much of their work as possible shows the lengths that vested interests go to in order to preserve the status quo.

  77. Greek Cold Fusion Revolution: Will NATO Bomb Greece Back Into The Stone Age Now? « Runnymede Institute on May 13, 2011 11:45 AM

    […] brainiacs Sergio Foccardi and Andrea Rossi struck gold with the Greek government’s approval for the production of the E-Cat Energy […]

  78. BB on May 15, 2011 4:33 PM

    Looking for co-founders for a news and network platform “The Fusion Catalyst”. Drop me a line if you’re both entrepreneurial and intrigued by the upcoming fusion revolution.

  79. Gnot Mie on May 15, 2011 5:55 PM

    Forgive my ignorance, but isn’t this just a description of a fuel cell with a nickel catalyst? Developed by the Chinese and proven to work, but at much lower efficiencies than platinum catalyst? Where does cold fission have to do with it? What does a secret ingredient have to do with it? Granted: adapting nickel as a catalyst is complicated and presently in the experimental stage, but certainly in the realm of good science. This cold fusion angle seems to be obfuscation at its best.

    Don’t think the idea of using nickel as a catalyst is patentable, but maybe the exact nickel, membrane, cathode and anode design is. Anyway, this idea is presently being developed by many parties in several countries and may become sufficiently efficient for widespread adaption in the near future. If this article really describes cold fusion (who knows), will it be better and less expensive than these new fuel cells? We shall see.

  80. BFast on May 15, 2011 8:54 PM

    “isn’t this just a description of a fuel cell with a nickel catalyst? Developed by the Chinese and proven to work, but at much lower efficiencies than platinum catalyst?”
    I am not familiar with the Chinese work, but the Ponds and Fleishman cold fusion experiment that used a platinum catalyst purportedly converted heavy hydrogen to either tritium or helium. This reaction purportedly converts nickel to copper.
    “Where does cold fission have to do with it?”
    This has nothing to do with fission (the disassembling of atoms into smaller parts) but fusion (the assembling of two atoms to make one larger one — in this case nickel plus hydrogen to make copper).
    “What does a secret ingredient have to do with it?” Rossi’s reactor, to the best of my knowledge, uses finely dusted nickel, pressurized hydrogen, high temperatures (somewhere between 500 and 2000 degrees C) and an unknown “catalyst”. If the unknown catalyst is not in the mix, the nuclear reaction does not occur, or occurs very slowly. To meet the definition of a catalyst, the catalyst is not consumed in the process.

    “If this article really describes cold fusion (who knows), will it be better and less expensive than these new fuel cells?”
    This device produces five horsepower of heat output constantly for six months from 50cc of nickel. That will be very hard to compete with. It means that the nickels that fit in my pocket can heat my house through the winter.

  81. Peter Roe on May 16, 2011 8:47 AM

    “The device has a central heater which is used to both start and control the reaction.”

    If thermal initiation and control is required, then the heater must be in direct contact with the cell. The cooling jacket prevents an external heater from heating the cell contents as I’ve said in a couple of posts.

    But that being the case, what is the outer band-type ‘main heater’ there for? Pure misdirection, or some other function?

  82. Gil on May 17, 2011 12:50 AM

    My view is that the outer band has so little effect , that I expect it to be mainly for “misdirection” .
    You are probably most correct in calling it “Pure misdirection”

    The reactor should also work exactly the same, without all the insulation covering.

    The reactor is kept operating at a low level such that it needs the heat of the central resistor to keep the reaction going.
    By removing voltage from the resistor, the reactor starts shuting down. This is the method they keep it operating at a somewhat steady level.

    The problem with operating at a higher output, without a resistor, is that the reaction will either increase or decrease.
    It will not just reach equalibrium at some level and stay there.

    So when the reaction starts increasing, it will continue until it goes into runaway, and then requires some type of very active shut down to stop it.
    Either that, or it melts , or it blows up.
    Remember, they said 37 reactors blew up in research , to this point.

  83. Peter Roe on May 17, 2011 7:34 AM

    If it is misdirection it certainly works. I’ve personally wasted quite a bit of time trying to figure it’s purpose out!

    The single main controller of operating temperature in the 50cc reaction cell appears to be forced water cooling. Without this, there would be nothing to prevent the reaction running away as soon as it has initiated, as the temperature would immediately rise uncontrollably.

    If the small device (mini ecat) produces the equivalent of 4.7kW in thermal output, the amount of heat that the water jacket carries away is about 15 times greater than the approx. 300W ‘maintenance’ input from the heater. This means that cooling water flow rate is actually more critical than heater input for regulating the reaction.

    For a ‘fast stop’ they should probably incorporate either a fusible plug in the reaction cell that releases the pressurised hydrogen when it melts, or a thermally operated valve to do the same thing. 37 seems to be a large number of devices to go through before thinking of incorporating a passive safety device of some kind!

  84. Gil on May 17, 2011 11:20 AM

    I have never heard it talked about, but they have a safety valve, so that when the temperature rises, the hydrogen pressure increases, and the safety valve opens.
    This releases hydrogen and slows the reactor.

    When this happens, it would need a manual injection of hydrogen to get back to normal operation.
    I have calculated what pressure the safety valve is set at, and I feel fairly cirtain that my calculation would be very close to it.

    I had posted a question to Rossi, on the forums, just to see what he would say, and he said he does not release that information.

  85. Malcolm on May 18, 2011 7:13 PM


    I’ve identified the auxiliary heater used in the reactor.
    It’s a Rotfil S21, 16mm diameter, length unknown although the reactor tube is long enough to take the 300mm unit. Power used also unknown; 160W for the 40mm length to 2.5kW for the 300mm.
    Catalogue can be found at:

    And a picture of the 300mm heater scaled to the reactor can be found at:

  86. Malcolm on May 18, 2011 7:17 PM
  87. Malcolm on May 18, 2011 7:41 PM

    I guess from the last few posts that this is actually the main reactor heater. A few calculations show that a stainless reactor container with an internal diameter of 19.5mm and a length of 300mm can contain the 100g of nickel and a 16x300mm heater.


  88. falsemail on May 19, 2011 1:36 AM

    Malcolm on May 18, 2011 7:13 PM

    Great job!

  89. Peter Roe on May 19, 2011 3:28 AM

    The hex-head version with threaded crown in the catalogue certainly looks the part. Great detective work!

    So we seem to have a stainless tubular heater enclosed in a slightly larger s/s tube with the nickel dust packed into the annulus, and water flowing along the entire outer surface. This makes a lot of sense from all points of view.

    Structurally then the remaining mystery is why Rossi has apparently chosen to make the hydrogen connection though the side walls of the reaction vessel and cooling water tube, rather than on the axis, with side ejection of heated water. This would have been mechanically so much easier than the illustrated arrangement.

    There is also the question of the purpose (if any) of the external band heater.

  90. Malcolm on May 19, 2011 3:44 AM

    A possible reason for the hydrogen connection at the top may well be to eliminate the problem of the powdered nickel fowling the gas inlet valve. Rossi’s solution stops the nickel going anywhere. However your idea would work if the reactor was operated vertically, so its still a bit of a mystery.

  91. Peter Roe on May 19, 2011 4:21 AM

    Vertical operation would also have facilitated removal of any air or localised steam pockets within the water jacket.

  92. Peter Roe on May 19, 2011 4:25 AM

    … and easy filling of the annulus with the heater in situ, simply by removing a top plug containing the hydrogen filler valve.

  93. Malcolm on May 19, 2011 8:23 AM

    Maybe the horizontal reactor allows the hydrogen to reach a larger proportion of the nickel powder without having to pass through it, assuming the annulus is not completely filled. A vertical reactor may heat up more at the top closer to the hydrogen source.

  94. Malcolm on May 19, 2011 8:50 AM

    Perhaps the widening of the copper pipe is simply there to accommodate the stainless T (maybe compression) connector required for the gas supply. I’m pretty sure Gil is right about the band heater.

  95. Peter Roe on May 19, 2011 9:47 AM

    That would make sense.

  96. Gil on May 19, 2011 12:19 PM

    I think that you also have the problem that if the device was put in a vertical position, the Ni powder would fall / filter down to the screw on connection and react there, putting heat at one of the weakest spots.

    If you read up on the construction of those
    cartridge-heaters you will find that most cartridge-heaters have an unheated zone at the conection end .

    So Ni filters down there and stops heating.

    To find that cartridge-heater in a catalogue in simply amaizing.
    You guys are geniuses.

    And I had already ordered my cartridge-heaters from china.

    I think your info and ideas here, are about the best I have seen on all my research.

  97. Malcolm on May 19, 2011 12:36 PM

    Hi Gil,

    What are you planning on trying for the catalyst? Iron?
    I’ll try and make up some rough plans if I have time.
    Good luck!

  98. Malcolm on May 19, 2011 12:40 PM

    Electrolysis should produce the hydrogen at the required pressure if you can’t source a bottle easily.

  99. Gil on May 19, 2011 1:04 PM

    Many years ago, I did some experiments using Electrolysis and my biggest problem was getting hydrogen without a lot of oxygen in it.
    Hydrogen is widely available, at least in North America.

  100. Malcolm on May 19, 2011 1:10 PM

    Yes, worth getting a bottle. After all you won’t be using much and you don’t want contamination.

  101. Gil on May 19, 2011 1:25 PM

    Malcolm, Peter R., can you email me, so I can send you my short explanation ?
    Also, in case this site puts a time limit on postings to articles, like some sites do,
    This is my email.
    docscience at

  102. Peter Roe on May 19, 2011 1:30 PM

    I’ve just had a look around and pure hydrogen gas seems to be more or less unobtainable here (UK) for individuals. If you could find some you would probably attract undesirable attention from some bunch of spooks. It looks like we probably won’t be replicating Rossi here.

    But as Malcolm mentioned, there is still the question of the ‘catalyst’ – unless this is another piece of misdirection.

  103. Peter Roe on May 19, 2011 1:40 PM

    Hi Gil. Trying to but my email addy seems to be having problems. Peter.

  104. Malcolm on May 19, 2011 1:47 PM

    Well, nano particle metals have until recently been difficult to obtain and certainly Focardi’s earlier work was done with a single metal bar. Rossi’s innovations may have been increasing the surface area, heat and pressure. A 100g of nickel can have a surface area of 7 to 70m2! depending on particle size.

  105. Peter Roe on May 19, 2011 1:56 PM

    That would be my guess too. Apparently when the Swedes looked at the device, Rossi gave them samples of raw ‘fuel’ and some that had cycled through an e-cat. The analysis they had done showed pure nickel (‘fuel’) and nickel with significant amounts of copper and iron (‘ash’) respectively.

  106. Gil on May 19, 2011 2:48 PM

    It seams that Hydrogen is widely used in some type of welding operations.
    I contacted several suppliers in my area (Canada) and they all seemed eager for the business, no questions ask.

    There are several sizes of hydrogen containers available, but one company only had the large size. Toooo big to handle.
    In my opinion , any small size that you can carry is much better than, anything you need the dolly cart for.
    If it is small, your neibours won’t see you carrying it.

    You esentially rent the containers with the hydrogen. I can not buy them.
    It is due to safety, that the companies retain control and containers do not sit somewhere until they rust through and blow up. (one of those pesky minor problems that could otherwise happen)

    Check medical oxygen suppliers, acetylene welding suppliers, Gas suppliers.
    I feel Someone will give you assistance on where to get it.
    As for questions, if that is a problem , check to see what it is used for in welding, and tell them that is what it is for.
    If you find out what it is used for in welding, let us know.
    Thats what they told me, that some welding process uses it.

  107. Peter Roe on May 19, 2011 3:34 PM

    Its used as a shield gas in mig/tig welding, but only seems to be available to the hoi polloi when mixed with argon here. I think we are probably lucky the kindly UK nanny state still lets us play with nasty matches.

  108. Gil on May 19, 2011 9:14 PM

    If anyone wishes to contact me, or someone else, incase this page ends postings, here is my contact info.
    docscience at

  109. Brian Westenhaus on May 19, 2011 9:31 PM

    Gil, Guys, the time limit is nearly a year away. I’m not real keen on showing folk’s email addresses. So Gil, if you would, please let me know to take it down, OK? Thanks!


  110. Gil on May 19, 2011 10:27 PM

    To Brian;
    This is my extra email address anyway, so I find it very useful to use, for people that wish to contact me, for information that they do not wish to post.
    Many sites make it possible to contact others, using obscured email adresses, and this seems to be the next best option for me.
    Thankyou for writing.

  111. Gil on May 20, 2011 9:09 AM


    The residue from the Rossi machines was said to have about 10% copper and 10% iron.
    From what we can tell, reactor was still working fine when they took that out,
    so those impurities are not effecting the reaction even at that point.
    I figure that the device should work just the same even with 50% total impurities.
    All one needs to do is put more nickle into the machine and then you can add more impurities. Of coures, this is only if you want impurities for some unknown reason.
    Also, I am trying to make the point that very obviously, a high percent of impurities will not severely effect the process.

    I feel that the process should work with larger particles then nickle powder, because
    even the grains of nickle powder are made up of large wolumes of nickle atoms.
    By using larger grains, you do decrease the surface area, but the surface area is still much larger then nickle sheet.
    My question is if individual grains of nickle powder are still made up of many nickle atoms, how do you separate out particular nickle isotopes ???
    (Can someone please explain for me)

    I have read most of the older postings, and in those , he very clearly says that he used natural nickle powder in its regular isotopes.
    He seams to have changed at one point and started with the new news of using isotopes.
    I think that changed after he had the isotopes tested at the university and they said what isotopes of copper were found.
    I think the story he gives now is a bit of back pedling, to make people think that normal nickle will not work,

    I was told that you can buy nickle powder from a company for “only” as someone has described it, $70 a gram.
    You can buy it in several different ways, it seams.

    Canadian nickles before 1982 were made with 99.9% pure nickle according to all websites I checked.
    I intend to use those not so old canadian nickles, of which many are still in circulation here, and put them in a vise grip.
    I will use my grinder, set the vise grip on some hinge arangement and use an elastic to to keep the nickle pressed lightly against the grinder.
    Put this in the back shed.
    It has to be set up so that when the nickle is ground up, the vise grip does not touch the grinder.
    I start it up and walk away.
    I would like to know what you think will work and what do you think will not.

  112. Malcolm on May 20, 2011 9:52 AM

    nano nickel powder is available off ebay.

  113. Gil on May 20, 2011 11:35 AM

    Thankyou for the info.
    Notice how that company (buffalodropoffstore ) selling nano nickel powder rips off canadian and other foreign buyers.

    The company is located within 10 miles of the Canadian border.
    They ship it free to people 2000 miles across the US, but charge $34. shipping, to send it to people in Canada. The actual cost to send to Canada is very close to the same price , as to anywhere in the US.
    This is a very standard practice with a very large number of obnoxious people in the US selling on Ebay.

    I have been buying on ebay for years and
    many more US sellers on Ebay are like this then those that are not.
    They make their own reputation stand out very well through out the world.

  114. Peter Roe on May 20, 2011 12:16 PM

    “nano nickel powder is available off ebay.” Amazing – so it is. No-one conveniently selling hydrogen bottles though!

    So if a replica 5kW unit could be made, it would cost about £50 in nickel for the 6 months or so a cell is supposed to run before needing a refill, plus the cost of the electricity over a 6 month period – about £140 at 12p/unit. So thats about £200 for a continuous output of 4.7kW for the six winter months (UK), excluding hardware costs.

    Normally that would cost about £1,600 in electricity but gas heating (a better comparison) only costs about 50% of electrical heating, so you could reckon on a saving on winter heating costs of about 75% relative to gas if you assume a 10kW equivalent gas boiler on a 50% duty cycle.

    Not as spectacular as might be hoped, but still well worth having. I wonder if I could convert my wife’s fuel guzzling Aga?

  115. Peter Roe on May 20, 2011 12:30 PM

    The price given on eBay UK is $139 for 100g with postage £14.95 (both USD).

  116. Peter Roe on May 20, 2011 12:32 PM

    Correction: postage $14.95

  117. BFast on May 20, 2011 1:09 PM

    Peter Roe, “Not as spectacular as might be hoped, but still well worth having.”

    Your calculations are based on current prices for nano-nickel. As this is simple mechanical processing with little commercial value, the equipment is not mass production oriented and the markups down the pipe are high. When demand develops for nano nickel, the cost of processing will drop to near zero. Nickel itself is extremely abundant, so its price will not rise markedly as Rossi’s technology takes off.

    Check out to discuss all aspects of the expected technological, economic and social effects of Rossi’s technology.

  118. Peter Roe on May 20, 2011 2:57 PM

    Nano nickel powder is probably carcinogenic (nickel compounds certainly are) and directly toxic, so no-one is going to replace their own.

    This would mean that if the device makes it to market as a wall hung replacement for a gas boiler, that it will have a self contained ‘cartridge’ at the heart, containing the heater, nickel dust and a pre-charge of hydrogen. This will be removed and recycled by a franchised supplier, who will almost certainly charge the highest amount the market will stand for the fresh cartridges, regardless of the actual cost of the contents.

    But perhaps we are getting a little ahead of ourselves here!

  119. BFast on May 20, 2011 5:00 PM

    Peter Roe, “who will almost certainly charge the highest amount the market will stand for the fresh cartridges, regardless of the actual cost of the contents.”

    However, here arrives the joy of the free enterprise system. If a little lab off in China can sell the thing for ten cents cheaper, they will. It’ll take very little time and the profit margin on Rossi “cartridges” will be slim.

  120. Billybob on May 20, 2011 10:05 PM

    Wait, so is anyone here trying to dream up an actual replica? Because that sounds like a fun, if unlikely to be successful, project, and I want in. Who here knows enough about these “nickel / hydrogen LENR ‘fuel cells’ ” to guess what Focardi is up to? Or are we just cheerleading and firing prematurely celebratory conjectures of into Space? Cause I’m cool with that too. Of course if Rossi turns out to be a fraud, we’ll have to flame the living bejesus out of all of his future websites for a good six years as punishment. Copper is definitely heavier than nickel though, so that’s encouraging. Ahhhh hoping against scientific hope – I find the sensation very much akin to that of gauging an as yet untested crush…

  121. Billybob on May 20, 2011 10:06 PM

    Also, it is very ironic that China was the example used to demonstrate the “joy of the free enterprise system.” How the world does change!

  122. BFast on May 20, 2011 10:55 PM

    “Who here knows enough about these “nickel / hydrogen LENR ‘fuel cells’ ” to guess what Focardi is up to?”

    I think this is where we are at so far:
    1 – The nickel should be “nano nickel”, ie fine nickel dust WHICH IS TOXIC! Nano nickel seems readily available at
    2 – It needs to be hot — at least 500 degrees (because Rossi claims he can heat water to 500 degrees) and not more than the melting point of nickel (duh) though some reactions seem to have melted nickel. Good heater cores for the job are discussed above, though some have suggested that the core Rossi used is capable of producing ALL of the output energy, which may how Rossi is pulling a fraud.
    3 – Ideally the nickel should consist of isotopes 62 and-or 64, though naturally occurring nickel is supposed to work just fine though it contains only about 5% of those two isotopes. (Some have theorized that Rossi uses nickel oxide, though I doubt it.)
    4 – It contains pressurized hydrogen. It seems that the reaction is somewhat controlled by the hydrogen pressure. How high the pressure must be is a bit unclear.
    5 – Rossi is using some form of catalyst. We are guessing that the catalyst is iron (probably not oxidized) This theory comes from the fact that the result of the reaction contained 79% nickel, 10% copper and 11% iron.

    My guess is that it is nano iron. I also guess, based upon the yapping of my professor in a metallurgy class years ago, that the iron is splitting the electron off of the hydrogen. The floating proton is then able to react with the nickel. This guess might be total hot air, but it was my professorès theory of why an iron container does not reliably hold hydrogen.

    Folks, this is my whack at answering billybobès questions. Please expand or correct my perception at will.

    That said, I personally have no intention of engaging in a build. I do, however, manage a website, that discusses the effect that the e-cat will have in the world iféonce it is validated.

  123. Craig Binns on May 22, 2011 4:10 AM


    This is all quite extraordinary.

    What your professor yapped about years ago looks like a plain vanilla chemical reaction to me; but your whole argument is based on the assertion that the PhDs have excluded chemical reactions as a possible source of power allegedly generated so copiously within the confined space of Rossi’s “reactor”.


    So are you suggesting that iron containers don’t reliably hold hydrogen because this combination of elements initiates a NUCLEAR reaction?

    I suggest you have a cup of tea and a quiet rest – and then think this through again.

  124. Peter Roe on May 22, 2011 9:23 AM

    Hydrogen permeation and embrittlement of iron is not a chemical reaction (no compounds are formed) nor is it nuclear (I don’t think Bfast suggests this). It is a temperature dependant process that may involve the hydrogen electron becoming somehow entrapped in the iron lattice’s electron cloud, presumably leaving what amounts to a ‘free’ proton. It has also been postulated that under certain circumstances (I have no idea what these might be) the hydrogen electron’s probability zone can shrink enormously, creating what is in effect a temporary ‘particle’ that supposedly behaves like a neutron in some ways, and would be small enough to enter the iron lattice. In either case hydrogen permeation of iron is therefore a quantum mechanical process.

    This whole question arises from Rossi’s assertion that two ‘catalysts’ are required to allow the thermal reaction to initiate. One of these has been speculated to be iron, for various reasons, including the ‘ash’ analysis.

    However I’m not sure this idea makes much sense. If iron is indeed present, then whatever happens in an iron particle is not really relevant to a neighbouring nickel particle. The altered hydrogen (if this is what happens) cannot migrate to the nickel, it can only exist in the atypical form while it remains within the iron lattice. But nickel is analogous to iron in many ways, so I see no reason to think that whatever can happen to hydrogen in an iron lattice environment, could not also take place in a nickel one.

    So perhaps there is no need to speculate about ‘catalysts’ – it may be that the ‘fusion’ process can take place when only nickel and hydrogen are present, given the right conditions of temperature and pressure.

  125. Craig Binns on May 22, 2011 11:35 AM


    Thank you for correcting me in the matter of the “chemical reaction”, and my apologies to BFast – on this point.

    May I, however, challenge your “nor is it nuclear (I don’t think Bfast suggests this)”?

    He appears to be suggesting just that. Please read his blog at

    “Ever since Ponds and Fleischman announced cold fusion back in 1989, I have suspected that their technology had more to offer than was understood.  I kept seeing their technology pop up.  There was a report some years later in Popular Science.  A lab at Lawrence Livermore Labs blew up in the “cold fusion lab”.  I discovered There was clearly a lot more to cold fusion than meets the eye.

    “I watch science sites daily.  There are a half-dozen sites that I check daily, including even though it is a very slow-moving site.  And there it was, Rossi showing off his energy catalyzer.  I got a bit excited, but I also said, “maybe”.  The next thing I know he presents it for 18 hours.  However the person who studied it, Giuseppe Levi, was clearly a friend.  Though Dr. Levi made a good case when he responded to the hoax question by saying that as a young professor with a career ahead of him, why would he waste it on a hoax.  A good point — but.  Then on March 29,2011, Dr. Hanno Essén, of the Swedish Skeptics Society and Sven Kullander chairman of the Royal Swedish Academy of Science’ Energy Committee were given virtually free reign to study the energy catalyzer.  (They were not invited to see the internals of the Rossi e-cat itself, but were invited to poke and prod through everything else.)  Their findings were clear, that no known chemical process could produce the 25kw/h of heat that came out of this tiny thing during the next six hours.”

    Thus he has mentioned just 2 possibilities: cold fusion or a hoax, and the latter is supposedly excluded by the poking and prodding which Rossi deigned to permit Essen and Killander to indulge in.

    Please also consult his comment in this thread:

    “BFast on April 5, 2011 10:32 PM
    I know I’m a little over my head here, but common nickel seems to contain isotopes: 58,60,61,62, and 64. Copper is stable in isotopes: 63 and 65. So is there a possible reaction Ni62 + H = Cu63 or Ni64 + H = Cu65?”

    Is he referring here to permeation, embrittlement – or transmutation?

    May I in addition refer you to Rossi’s own blog, or “journal”: Hydrogen/Nickel cold fusion probable mechanism. By Prof. Ch. E. Stremmenos.

    “The mechanism proposed by Focardi – Rossi, verified by mass spectroscopy data, which predicts transmutation of a nickel nucleus to an unstable copper nucleus (isotope), remains in principle valid. The difference is that inside the unstable copper nucleus, produced from the fusion of a hydrogen mini-atom with a nickel nucleus, is trapped the mini-atom electron (β-), which in my opinion undergoes in-situ annihilation, with the predicted (Focardi-Rossi) decay β+ of the new copper nucleus.”

    In any event, is it conceivable that a process of permeation or embrittlement (unless it induced fusion in some way) could be imagined to account for the allegedly observed energy output, let alone justify the bizarre fantasies which make up most of the content of BFast’s blog?

  126. BFast on May 22, 2011 12:03 PM

    I don’t consider the effects between iron and hydrogen to be “nuclear” as there is no melding of the nucleus of the relevant atoms. I think, however, that iron may play a catalyzing role in the nickel + hydrogen reaction.

    The nickel + hydrogen = copper reaction, if real, is nuclear, transmutation.

  127. Peter Roe on May 22, 2011 3:25 PM

    My comments were intended to refer to the phenomenon of hydrogen permeation into iron (and probably most metals) which is important to the theoretical model presented by Rossi and Focardi. I was not referring to the actual source of the heat apparently generated by the Rossi device.

    On the evidence available I have to agree with Bfast – the observed heating is either derived from a simple electrical heater (the hoax option) or it is produced by some as yet not fully elucidated process, which can only be at the nuclear level.

    No known chemical or electrochemical reaction would able to sustain the thermal outputs observed, and in any case no compounds are observed in the ‘ash’ from the process, only elements.

  128. Craig Binns on May 22, 2011 4:41 PM

    BFast and Peter

    Thanks for the elucidation. Of course, like almost everyone else, I am much more interested in whether fusion is taking place or not, than whether it is catalysed by iron or something else, or whether hydrogen embrittles iron, which I have heard of already. In any case there’s little point in discussing this, as Rossi refuses to vouchsafe us the relevant information.

    The problem is that the cold fusion, however “catalysed”, has some incredible features:

    1 It is not accompanied by huge emissions of deadly radiation.
    2 It yields as a product the same mixture of copper isotopes as exist in nature, and leaves behind untransmuted nickel also in the observed natural ratios. This is quite fantastic, given that natural copper was produced in the core of some long-dead star billions of years ago, and any unstable isotopes have had plenty of time to decay, while Rossi’s alchemical contraption was in operation a mere few days ago, and it in no way resembles a star. (Hot fusion experiments are performed in devices that do indeed resemble stars.)

    To which I feel inclined to add that “catalysis” by iron of nickel to copper transmutation, if it were possible, would be observed (or its products would be observed) in the natural environment, because these metals have coexisted intimately in every imaginable regime of chemistry, pressure and temperature during billions of years; unless of course the earth is a mere few thousand years old, as suggested by literalist readings of the Bible … But I digress.

    Add to all this Rossi’s peculiar record, the conflicting statements about whether he has received any money yet or not, and other disquieting information, and it is impossible not to have the gravest suspicions about this whole bizarre affair.

  129. Gil on May 22, 2011 6:35 PM

    One comment on the external heater.
    I think that it is a possiblity that the so called heater wires, are wires to a thermocouple that is drilled and tapped into the reactor core.
    The wrap around heater makes a good cover to hide this.
    On the exposed display reactors, they are probably just real wrap around heaters for the display.

  130. Peter Roe on May 23, 2011 4:16 AM

    Regarding the nickel and copper isotopes involved, I think Brian Elliot, Bfast and Wade have posted relevant information earlier in this thread. The ‘take away’ from the various posts is that natural nickel contains a mix of stable isotopes (58, 60, 61, 62 and 64Ni) three of which may be relevant here if simple transmutations really are taking place:

    62Ni + 1H -> 63Cu (stable)
    64Ni + 1H -> 65Cu (stable)
    58Ni + 1H -> 59Cu (unstable, decays rapidly back to nickel: 59Cu -> 59Ni + B+ + y)

    The latter process would therefore be the source of energy, which would result from the decay of 59Cu followed by positron-electron annihilation, B+ + B- -> y + y.

    So the basic ‘output’ from this theoretical process consists of gamma photons plus two stable forms of copper, with the critical nickel isotope (58Ni) being in effect endlessly recycled as the unstable 59Cu quickly decays. As all stable isotopes of iron (54, 56, 57 and 58Fe) have lower or equal mass numbers than nickel isotopes, then the creation of iron would not be expected from this transmutation process, which tends to lend support to the idea that iron in the ‘ash’ may have been added to the initial ‘fuel’.

    I don’t think I’ve seen an analysis of the copper ‘ash’ isotopic ratios, but if the ideas summarised above are correct, the copper should presumably comprise 63Cu and 65Cu in roughly the same proportions as 62Ni and 64Ni occur in the original ‘fuel’ (unless there is a bias toward one pathway or the other, which is entirely possible).

    The main weakness of this proposed mechanism seems to me to be the supposed conversion of gamma photons into thermal energy apparently taking place mainly within the nickel mass, as only relatively light lead shielding is required around the apparatus. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than myself can suggest how gamma photons might interact with nickel (or iron) to produce heat?

  131. Craig Binns on May 23, 2011 6:01 AM


    Please look at

    In particular “Comment 2”

    Please also look at the discussion of this question in the Randi Forum at (pp 22 to 24 are good fun too.)

    12th May 2011, 05:24 PM   #818 ben m

    “Dr Mr. Rossi,

    Concerning the Nickel input in the experiment, do you deplete it of Ni58?”

    ‘Dear Mr Daniel De Francia:

    So we’re supposed to believe that Rossi has a supply of, and data on, isotopically-weird nickel … but also that his best evidence for nuclear reactions is still the tinfoil-and-thermometers dog and pony show? Right. Imagine the same thing in other scam fields:

    “Concerning the blurry trail-camera photos you claim are evidence for Bigfoot, do you also have a live sasquatch in captivity in your garage?

    Dear sir,

  132. Peter Roe on May 23, 2011 6:10 AM

    The only information I have been able to find online indicates that approx. 2.5cm of nickel or iron is required to reduce a gamma flux to about 50% by absorption.

    Assuming the nickel to be packed into an annulus around a central heater core, while absorption might be significant longitudinally, it would be negligible radially. This being the case, although the proposed 58Ni + 1H -> 59Cu -> 59Ni + B+ + y pathway seems elegant, it would presumably produce a continuous strong gamma flux during operation, which is not observed.

    Possible processes that might result in a heating effect are obviously critical to understanding Rossi’s device, if it is not a hoax.

  133. Malcolm on May 23, 2011 11:35 AM

    Since the identified heaters and 230V outlet socket can easily supply the required heat, the obvious question to ask is how was the input power measured? Who supplied the power meter and was it checked in any way?
    Also look at:
    This is probably where the 1MW demo will be held. A couple of these gensets could provide all the power needed.

  134. Malcolm on May 23, 2011 12:17 PM

    I’ve just found that the current meter was calibrated and indicated 1.5A corresponding to 330W. This was said to be the current to the band heater (300W) and 30W for instrumentation, but I guess all this power was going to the central core heater.

  135. Peter Roe on May 23, 2011 1:24 PM

    I think several parts of Rossi’s description of the e-cat device have to be regarded as attempts at ‘misdirection’. It is probably a good idea to examine each of his statements or hints very carefully before accepting any one of them at face value.

    With that said, I don’t think I would have ‘released’ half as much information as he appears to have done, if I was sitting on a potentially multi-million pound/dollar invention.

  136. BFast on May 23, 2011 1:40 PM

    I must admit that there are two points brought up in this thread that deeply concern me.

    1 – That there is room in the core for a 2500W heater (Malcolm on May 18, 2011 7:13 PM). Of course, even if Rossi was cranking this heater up to the max, his measured output was still 4500W.

    Two questions persist — Are the Ph.D.’s of some reputation really that easy to fool? And where did the extra 2000W come from?

    2 – The report that the tested nickel and copper had the naturally occurring isotope mix. It would appear that Rossi could have taken some nickel powder, some copper powder and some iron powder and mixed them together presenting them as his resultant.

    One question persist — If Rossi produced a mix, why did he add the iron? (It could be that he would assume that others would assume that the iron was related to the catalyst.)

  137. Peter Roe on May 23, 2011 1:53 PM


    I’ve followed up your links. They are extremely interesting, particularly the Kowalski PDF and comments by ‘McFate’ on the Randi forum.

    I haven’t really had time yet to study the information in depth, but I take your point that it does throw considerable doubt on several aspects of the nickel-to-copper debate. As I indicated in an earlier post, I already had doubts about the ‘recycling’ 58Ni pathway due to the absence of a significant gamma flux – a point that Kowalski raises.

    I think that the logical reaction (at least for me) is to reserve judgement until further information is available, such as the outcome of investigation by a fully independent body or individual, or provable replication by a third party.

    I must say that what puzzles me slightly is why you, as an obvious ‘disbeliever’, are still contributing to this thread, as well as to others relating to Rossi’s claims. While I would be truly fascinated if ‘sasquatch’ turned out be real, I don’t read or contribute to forums dedicated to this possibility because I don’t believe in Bigfoot.

  138. Gil on May 23, 2011 2:38 PM

    It would not suprise me if hydrogen was turning into helium. Although they do not think so, when the machine is opened, they would lose any evidence of any helium.

  139. Craig Binns on May 23, 2011 3:00 PM


    Is it like a religion where we’re either believers or infidels? Hopefully we’re all open to being convinced by the evidence, such as it is.

    And if there is any reasonable suspicion of deceit, surely the most useful thread to contribute to is one frequented by the people most likely to become its victims.

    But I might be wrong, and Rossi might be right. How can I ever find out unless I attend to the arguments from both sides?

    Admittedly I think the nay-sayers are very probably in the right; but that’s an opinion, not a dogma.

  140. Peter Roe on May 23, 2011 3:30 PM


    Sorry about the choice of words. You are absolutely right – ‘belief’ is irrelevant: We should all try to be open minded, and follow whichever direction the evidence points in.

    Right now I would have to say that the evidence available through your two links is fairly (actually, completely) damning of the nickel/copper story. However, if I really was sitting on a paradigm-shifting fortune-making invention, but needed to ‘get it out there’ despite having no patent protection outside of my homeland, I too would probably dissemble and attempt to mislead in much the same way Rossi appears to be doing.

    So at the moment I have decided to do what I suppose you could call a ‘schrodinger’s e-cat’! I’ll just wait until someone actually opens the box to see if the creature is alive or dead.

  141. Gil on May 23, 2011 3:32 PM

    Craig said
    ” How can I ever find out unless I attend to the arguments from both sides? ”
    You might be able to find out if you join those of us who are attemping to replicate and start building one. !!!!!

  142. BFast on May 23, 2011 4:12 PM

    There is more trouble that concerns me — I understand that Rossi has stated that he doesn’t want or need anyone’s money until the 1MW reactor is up and running. Yet he seems to have received undisclosed funding from the American company, “Ampenergo”, and the Greek government has invested like 400 million euro in the Greek plant (as if they can afford a 200 million euro fraud.) If old steel-balls Rossi is scamming the world, I hope he’s hung by ’em when its over.

  143. Malcolm on May 24, 2011 12:52 PM

    I’ve just been looking at the video for the 28th April test. It shows quite clearly that the current was measured on the neutral wire and not the live! This leaves the possibility of returning the 300W band heater current through the neutral and the 2KW through the earth. What were they doing!!

  144. Gil on May 24, 2011 9:00 PM

    This is important information to some of you.
    The question for Rossi is:
    Is the heater acting as a cathode or would a flame from a Bunsen burner also work?
    Rossi says the Bunsen burner will work.

  145. falsemail on May 25, 2011 12:50 AM

    BFast on May 23, 2011 4:12 PM

    “…I hope he’s hung by ‘em when its over.”

    No if it’s an inside job. Then Rossi will go unpunished. Anyway, 400 million euro is worth the risk.

  146. Billybob on May 25, 2011 1:34 AM

    @ Peter Roe

    I refuse to believe that no one here (yourself included) is enjoying himself. Mr. Rossi has provided us all with a forum for near boundless speculation at near zero cost. The joy of forums like this comes from reeling out wildly intemperate inductions in the company of those who will at one turn chide our intellectual recklessness and at the next proffer a tantalizing morsel of corroborating evidence. This game is fun, and that is justification enough for all our presence here.

    To wit…

    I have heard (from a relation over dinner at a wedding reception) that plasma (I am not a physicist) is of use in the sandwiching of different materials, especially within the realm of semiconductors. The plasma (I was told) somehow sufficiently disrupts the electrons at the most superficial levels, allowing to materials to be “fused.” Would these plasma etching interactions be of any use in trying to shed light on a possible mechanism for an exothermic interaction between nickel and iron?

  147. Peter Roe on May 25, 2011 3:17 AM


    As you say, it has been a bit of free fun.

    Unfortunately I think that we may have pretty much hit the wall for the moment, especially in view of the demise of the pretty central nickel-to-copper story.

    In fact, several aspects of the supposed construction and operation of the e-cat gadgets are currently open to question, and there appears to be fairly clear evidence of what I have politely referred to as ‘misdirection’ in earlier posts.

    In view of this, my personal feeling is that it probably isn’t worth speculating further until some more reliable information becomes available.

    I imagine there must have been a considerable amount of wine involved in developing the interesting theory proposed at this wedding reception. Perhaps some plasma sandwiches were served?

  148. Peter Roe on May 25, 2011 3:27 AM

    I should have said “in *my* earlier posts”. I was certainly not casting nasturtiums on any posts in this forum.

  149. Malcolm on May 25, 2011 5:03 PM

    If any one is interested, the first demonstrations were carried out at:

  150. Malcolm on May 25, 2011 5:26 PM

    Take a drive with street view :-)

  151. Malcolm on May 25, 2011 6:31 PM
  152. BFast on May 25, 2011 7:42 PM

    Billybob, I am pretty much inclined to agree with you that we have “hit the wall for the moment”. However, despite the unexpected results of the isotope analysis, I am personally not prepared to declare, the demise of the pretty central nickel-to-copper story. I do find it hurting badly at this point, however.

  153. Peter Roe on May 26, 2011 4:28 AM

    Malcolm: “” (Ionisation of hydrogen by nickel and absorption of free B+ by the Ni lattice, temperature and production of temporary high-energy electrons, formation of neutron-like ‘mini-hydrogen’ atoms able to bypass the coulomb barrier, 58Ni + 1H -> 59Cu -> 59Ni + B+ + y, *and* some possible mechanisms for conversion of gamma photons to heat.)

    This is a very neat summary of all the tentative theorising about what could be going on in an ‘e-cat’, and at the same time proposes possible solutions for the ‘missing gamma’ problem.

    Of course it is not consistent with Rossi’s ‘30% copper’ story – if Prof. Stremmenos is correct, the only copper produced would be unstable 59Cu that rapidly decays back to nickel. Also, the ‘spent fuel’ samples given to the Swedes showed high levels of copper, apparently with ‘normal’ isotopic ratios. If the 58Ni/59Cu theory is correct, then 58Ni would obviously deplete as 59Ni increases.

    However, the measured isotopic ratios showed no deviation from normal, indicating that the copper (and any iron) in the sample must have been added at some point. These elements could therefore be the mysterious ‘catalysts’, a crude attempt at faking transmutation, or may have been added simply to confuse the issue. Take your pick.

    I think we need to see *verified* samples of fuel before and after operation of a device, and an equally verified isotopic analysis. We may have to wait some time for any incontrovertible evidence of this kind I suspect. Personally I think I’ll just wait to see if the promised 1MW plant materialises, *then* worry about how it may work.

  154. Peter Roe on May 26, 2011 4:37 AM

    Sorry – I haven’t absorbed my morning coffee yet. I retract “not consistent with Rossi’s ’30% copper’ story”. Of course there would be nothing to stop other nickel isotopes transmuting to stable isotopes of copper, if the central premise is accepted.

    The problem regarding isotope ratios remains.

  155. Charlie Pollack on May 26, 2011 9:29 AM

    Of course, what a great site and informative posts, I will add backlink – bookmark this site? Regards, Reader

  156. Phillip Morris on May 26, 2011 11:04 AM

    If you all worked together in a lab I’m sure that you would soon crack this egg 😉

    Great radical free thinking…bring it on !

  157. Peter Roe on May 26, 2011 11:11 AM

    Malcolm: “If any one is interested, the first demonstrations were carried out at:
    44°30’12.73″N 11°24’10.77″E”

    Via dell’Elettricista, 4. Large factory marked FLli Rossi, Di Angelo E, Lucio Rossi. Is this Rossi’s factory that was supposed to have been heated by e-cats?

  158. Mario the Tuscan on May 26, 2011 11:39 AM

    Well folks I wish you could understand Dr Levi’s interview where he explains the pains he tooks to rule out any hidden wires, frauds, etc.
    His final down-to-earth statement on the E-Cat was:
    “A bologna si dice che se canta come un gallo e raspa come un gallo, allora E’ un gallo!!”
    In Bologna we say that if it sings like a rooster and scrapes like a rooster, then IT IS a rooster!!
    As time passes there seem to be more confirmations than doubts.
    Let’s all hope nothing gets in the way….
    Mario the hopeful Tuscan

  159. Malcolm on May 26, 2011 12:06 PM


    A image can be found at:

    Its the building to the left. I haven’t seen a sign and yes, I assume this was heated by e-cats.

  160. Mario the Tuscan on May 26, 2011 12:14 PM

    It’s possible that experiments were held in that area (that Rossi company is an old Bologna-based tyre trading company) but remember that the surname Rossi is as common as the English Smith….

    The company using e-cats for heating is in Bondeno, read below.

    Excerpt from

    “A practical embodiment of the inventive apparatus, installed on October 16, 2007, is at present perfectly operating 24 hours per day, and provides an amount of heat sufficient to heat the factory of the Company EON of via Carlo Ragazzi 18, at Bondeno (Province of Ferrara).”

  161. Peter Roe on May 26, 2011 12:27 PM

    Someone else having a good ‘speculate’ on the basis of the factual vapour available:

    The author hasn’t picked up the use of the tubular heaters identified by Malcolm, but does ignore the external band-type ‘main heater’ totally.

  162. Malcolm on May 26, 2011 12:45 PM

    Interesting to see those cables coming out of the windows going from room to room along the front of the building.

  163. Malcolm on May 26, 2011 1:09 PM

    And what are those two suspicious looking guys doing to the electricity cables at the gate :-)

  164. Peter Roe on May 26, 2011 1:23 PM

    You have a suspicious mind :) The feed(?)cable seems to originate in the white building to the left. Probably just the usual ad hoc bodges you find in many run-down industrial areas. Or maybe he runs his factory off an un-metered supply somewhere. I wonder if the company name next door (Ponzi) might be significant?

  165. Peter Roe on May 26, 2011 1:27 PM

    Not sure about the blokes by the gate, but I’ve just spotted the red cable immediately to the left of the gate. That looks fairly serious, if electrical.

  166. Peter Roe on May 26, 2011 1:34 PM

    With a bit of maneuvering you can see it appears to originate at a large distribution box by the gate, goes up the tree then into an the upper floor hopper window.

  167. Malcolm on May 26, 2011 1:36 PM

    I think the factory is new. Well the aerial view shows it without proper road access.
    Pity the image is distorted, but the guy on right could be the man himself.

  168. Peter Roe on May 26, 2011 1:42 PM

    Maybe just contractors temporary cables then.

  169. Peter Roe on May 26, 2011 1:43 PM

    Damn – there goes another great conspiracy theory.

  170. Malcolm on May 26, 2011 1:52 PM

    Yes, I guess the cables are to supply contractors inside the building with power.

  171. Gil on May 26, 2011 4:29 PM

    RE: the comment
    Bhagirath Joshi
    May 26th, 2011 at 7:53 AM
    He says :
    ” Therefore, as soon as 59Cu is formed, it decays in to 59 Ni through positron ( beta positive) emission and Proton turns in to neutron,…. ”

    Is it well noted that a Proton can turn into a neutron ???

  172. Brian Westenhaus on May 26, 2011 11:23 PM

    In response to:

    Gil on May 23, 2011 3:32 PM


    Thanks for the offer. Please get back to me when your replication is up and running.

    Meantime you might consider getting in touch with “the long-awaited, public demo french replicator, jean-louis naudin” – easily found on the net – who replicates all sorts of things, including the “long-awaited” Steorn magnetic motor and a most impressive cold fusion device that can power light bulbs. See his pix at  and .

    The uber-sceptic James Randi has, however, reacted to these wonders with a typical display of curmudgeonly incredulity. . That was back in 2002, but Naudin is undismayed and came back this year with a replication of a “Kapgen v3” generator. . (This site also has much to tell us about Rossi’s achievements.)

    Unfortunately Naudin’s recent Internet publications consist entirely of text-poor video displays of light bulbs going on and off and flying machines whizzing about, so they are difficult to evaluate theoretically.

    As a replicator yourself, you may be able to understand these things better than I can. Good luck!

  173. Craig Binns on May 27, 2011 12:50 AM

    Dear All

    It was me who sent that reply to Gill. Brian’s computer must have blown a fuse!

  174. Peter Roe on May 27, 2011 2:07 AM

    Mario The Tuscan:
    “A practical embodiment of the inventive apparatus, installed on October 16, 2007, is at present perfectly operating 24 hours per day, and provides an amount of heat sufficient to heat the factory of the Company EON of via Carlo Ragazzi 18, at Bondeno (Province of Ferrara).”

    Thanks for the additional information. Your comment seems to have been held for moderation so we missed it while having a bit of fun with the other ‘Rossi’ factory.

  175. Craig Binns on May 31, 2011 11:34 PM


    I have left my native Scotland to spend a week in a village near Venafro (Province of Isernia). As yet, unlike in Bondeno (Province of Ferrara), the people here still heat their homes and workplaces with logs or wood pellets, or “metano” gas, rather than by transubstantiation of nickel to copper.

    But come next October that will change, will it not? I look forward with great impatience to seeing a nuclear reactor in every home!

  176. Cold fusion reactor is being tested - Fires of Heaven Guild Message Board on June 11, 2011 4:36 AM

    […] is catching up and it's becoming a major thing with some international agencies checking it out Updating the Rossi Focardi Cold Fusion Reactor | New Energy and Fuel Dennis Bushnell, Chief Scientist of NASA confirms Rossi’s LENR device is the #1 energy […]

  177. Craig Binns on June 11, 2011 6:41 AM

    Thanks for the link. That’s the most poorly informed contribution to the debate on the Rossi device I have ever seen! For example one lunkhead (you may find out his on-line pseudonym by looking at ) has written the following gem:

    “The reason I posted about it is because it is being tested and so far no one has even suggested about a scam.”

    Well, NEARLY right, but not quite. I wrote a reply, but it costs a “one-time donation of $25” to register on the site, so Mr F***** can go F*** his hat. Here’s what I wrote:

    “Yes, lots and lots of people have heard about this!

    “Look for “nickelpower” and “newenergyandfuel” on the Internet, and if you want to find people (including me) who think it’s a scam, there’s 37 pages of them saying exactly that at and if you want to read about Rossi’s background as a serial scammer, look at any of the many Internet articles about him.

    “And you may wish to consult where you will find statements such as the following:

    “Peter Ekström, lecturer at the Department of Nuclear Physics at Lund University in Sweden, concluded, ‘I am convinced that the whole story is one big scam, and that it will be revealed in less than one year.’

    “How you can have missed all this is a complete mystery!”

    Has anyone noticed the recently reported “delay” (what an unexpected surprise!) in Rossi’s schedule, allegedly due to Patent Office intransigence? See

    “If the U.S. Patent Office does not grant these patents, there will be blood on their hands. They will be literally taking clean water out of the mouths of infants, stealing food off the plates of children, slapping poverty stricken people in the face, and contributing to the financial decline of the world.”

    Aye, right; as we sardonically say here in Scotland. But it gets worse:

    “Perhaps another way of insuring competitors do not steal market share if they obtained his secrets, would be for him to offer pre-orders of E-Cat units. A series of additional demonstrations could be held once the one megawatt plant in Xanthi is launched. These demos could entice millions of people to make preorders.”

    If these millions of preorderers were “enticed” to pay a deposit, however small, it would be a common or garden, tried and true, “advance fee fraud”. We’ll soon see.

    Any Rossi believers still out there?

  178. SlakedMercury on June 14, 2011 12:17 AM


  179. SlakedMercury on June 14, 2011 2:09 AM

    @Craig Binns

    I have read these comments and you seem most knowledgeable on the subject.

    First, I have seen some horrible revelations from Mr. Rossi’s past on other sites. I am in the middle as to my thoughts on the device. If I were Mr. Rossi, as you and others suggest, I would be offering at least a few critical misdirections to protect the true nature of the device.

    I am almost interested enough to see how much water flow would be needed to supply the device enough cooling to keep it at or below 500C when generating 25kW per hour and emitting steam at near atmospheric pressure it that was what the demo was doing. Keeping in mind the heater is there also.

    I almost went into a long explanation of how the device could work. However to keep it short, even if a half H2 molecule is produced by various semi-plausible means in a distorted Ni lattice and even if the said H* were to become a neutron or cloaked proton electron pair, these two events do not necessitate a union with a nearby Ni atom. Various forcing mechanisms come to mind with and without the ability to fuse the electron and proton to form a neutron or cloak the proton enough to allow its cross section to rise to a level allowing entry. These are left to your imagination.

    Once in the Ni nucleus, the small now what must certainly be regarded as a neutron has to avoid being bounced out. Magic numbers of the nuclear energy levels must come into play. Ni is seeking the maximum nuclear potential well at 60. I am doing all of this from memory and its late. Enough energy has to be dissipated fast to prevent the launch of gamma ray photons from the excited system. Reversion to a proton via beta minus, the electron gets vibrated out as beta minus, then beta plus rather instantaneously with neagatron positron annihilation is the so called route. Where does the copper come from that is supposed to end up with the powdered Ni because you end up where you started minus a few H2 with additional heavier Ni?

    In addition, if the device works at all, why not saturate a Ni powder with H2 as they do, and hot fuse a symmetrical plasma of H* to it? Should work even better. Maybe the Ni would have to be hot and the H* would have to be BEC.

    Onward to the original problem. H2 is a bigger molecule than He. He does not diffuse into metals. Of course, He has a complete em field of considerable stability. However, the lattice diffusion may not be by H2 but by a reduced size H* or the big foot of the family a bare proton with a em cloak. And a ghost just walked past.

    I see an analog in the way snow flakes form and grow out from the points. A fascinating process that has been explained. The ice lattice grows in the direction of least thermal resistance. Heat energy is contained in a dense water film at 1.4C. As the hydrogen bonding battle is lost to thermal depletion, the formation of less dense ice occurs. The thermal energy loss gradient is highest towards the thinnest layer of air at the points. The gradient aligns the lattice and vice versa because of the liquid density max is not at the freezing point.

    Seems like the process if true would work with other elements that are near magic nuclear numbers and can be placed in an environment with H* acting as high cross section neutrons. The surface of white dwarfs and neutron stars come to mind.

    I love corrections to my posts. Each one of them teaches me something and thereby saves me time learning on my own. Please show me my errors. I make them all the time.

    I hope not to offend and sound too arrogant. But, such is my way. In a given week, I speak with less than five people on average. I live in a remote area of the US.

  180. Craig Binns on June 18, 2011 1:30 AM


    Sorry I have taken so long to respond. A close friend died suddenly in his sleep a few days ago, and that tragedy has distracted me from other things, of course.

    I can’t comment on the details of the processes you invoke to attempt to explain the operation of the Rossi e-cat, because I don’t understand them. For a discussion of these aspects of the affair, I can refer you to some of the comments in a very long thread in the James Randi blog – 41 pages, and counting!

    My contention is that Rossi is a fraud. His record (which you accurately describe as “horrible”) indicates that he is a serial scammer, and at least some of his associates in the past have been crooks, as you probably know. The free energy field has been full of scams, and in any case it has never produced a single invention of value. Rossi is, it seems to me, is working a “free energy” type fraud decked out with some flimflam couched in the language of nuclear physics. I will be absolutely astounded if he turns out to be honest, let alone if his transmutation contraption actually works!

    And we’ll soon know. Can we agree that he’s a scammer if he hasn’t produced a commercialised working device open to full public scrutiny by end calendar 2011? No absurd excuses about the wicked and intransigent Patent Office to be accepted, because scammers always find ways to delay delivery, to milk their frauds as long as they can before they finally blow up.

    Look at Blacklight with its absurd pseudoscientific flimflam about “hydrinos”. See where Robert L. Park, of the University of Maryland, is cited from June 2008:

    “There is no independent scientific confirmation of the hydrino, and BLP has a patent problem. So they have nothing to sell but bull shit. The company is therefore dependent on investors with deep pockets and shallow brains.”

    The Blacklight scam has been operating for 20 years, and has raked in no less than $60m from the simpletons who have invested in it. Needless to say, “hydrinos” have been linked with cold fusion, so the latter is probably equally delusional, if not totally fraudulent.

    “In a review of cold fusion research, Edmund Storms, a cold fusion researcher, concludes that the hydrino model provides a possible explanation for cold fusion.” See .

    In short, I simply don’t believe that the e-cat is producing the energy output claimed by Rossi.

    Why on earth did you write these words?

    “If I were Mr. Rossi, as you and others suggest, I would be offering at least a few critical misdirections to protect the true nature of the device.”

    Consider this: Rossi states that the only source of investment is his own money. He wants to keep the device secret until it is on the market. So why did he put on his steam generation show at all? He didn’t need to do this if he wanted to “misdirect” people; he just needed to keep shtum. Misdirection is what conjurors do, not scientists.

    And who are the investors he’s trying to protect by refusing to release intelligible information, if all the money invested is his own?

    Also, is this any way to respond to pertinent questions? From Rossi’s collaborator Dr Levy, to Steven Krivit :

    “Given that you omitted portions of information you had, insulted me (and my University) trying to say that I’m not knowledgeable enough in my area, tried (just tried) to scare me and put me under psychological pressure in order to obtain so far undisclosed data, I will not send you further information.”

    So until all this is resolved I wouldn’t bother too much about lattice diffusion, reduced size H*, or bare protons with em cloaks, because there’s almost certainly no effect to explain, as far as the Rossi e-cat is concerned, except the eternal mystery of why so many people are so credulous.

  181. Jan on June 19, 2011 6:28 AM

    E-Cat it is violently opposed. It is normal at this stage. Before the end of October it will be in function 1MW electric plant. One kWh will be sold for 1 cent of Euro!
    This extraordinary demonstration will silence the opposition in Autumn, and not before.

  182. Jan on June 19, 2011 6:32 AM
  183. Craig Binns on June 19, 2011 3:16 PM

    “Before the end of October it will be in function 1MW electric plant. One kWh will be sold for 1 cent of Euro!”

    Jan – that is absurd. Not even Rossi is claiming that electricity will be sold for one cent per kilowatt hour before the end of October. Bushnell is a very credulous individual who takes zero point energy and other nonsense too seriously. (Are you a believer in such “free energy scams?)

    See my discussion of Bushnell’s views at

    Bushnell obviously believes Rossi’s claims about the energy output of his e-cat device, and he is willing to invoke lenr as an explanation of this phenomenon. I think Rossi is a total fraud, and his e-cat is simply a conjuring trick. There is no exceptional energy output to be explained. Bushnell is a scientist, and thinks that facts don’t tell lies. But Rossi’s reported facts are not facts; they are flimflam. He is a conman – a phoney.

    Steve Krivit used to take Rossi seriously, but now look at what he is saying after visiting Rossi. It’s at

  184. SlakedMercury on June 19, 2011 8:09 PM

    @Craig Binns

    Sad to hear of your friend’s death. Thanks for your reply.

    I thought that if Rossi really had a working device he would give some false information to help maintain his position as first in the field because patents are so weak. He might say that a copper tube was essential when any suitable metal tube would do. If that is not standard practice in science, science does not parallel industry. Cannot tell where the goose nest is located once the staff forgot to melt the golden egg before shipping the weeks production.

    I will be extremly sad for these fellows if all this fails crooks or not because such a massive public failure has to destroy the soul. Also, if it was intentional, they have to have an extreme misconception of what living is all about. I would be sad to think that such behavior was possible from people.

  185. Craig Binns on June 20, 2011 1:40 AM


    Thank you for your kind condolences, which I appreciate.

    “I would be sad to think that such behavior was possible from people.” you say, and you tell us, “I live in a remote area of the US.”

    Remote indeed must it be, if you are shocked by the idea that there may be crooks who pervert science for the sake of enriching themselves through exploiting the honest innocence of others.

  186. Emanuele Musa on June 20, 2011 8:30 AM

    1) “So far, they have not gotten a patent, and that’s always been difficult in the cold fusion field because the patent examiners simply don’t believe that it’s real.”

    >> WRONG: Rossi and Focardi already have a patent but only in Italy, not yet extended at a European level. It should not be a problem also at a European level because the patent’s aim is not to explain the unknown process which originates the nuclear reaction at such low temperatures -nobody has to be convinced- but with the patent they will protect the mixture they have found to create the right conditions in the nickel for the reaction to happen.

    2) “There are a few countries where that’s not true, and Italy is one of them. The government there believes that it’s real, and they’re doing everything they can to develop it.”

    >> WRONG: The Italian government until the 13 of June 2011 was promoting the REINTRODUCTION (after 25 years) of nuclear power-plants in the country, against every trend to reduce the amount of energy produced by nuclear fission since the Fukushima disaster. The Italian Government is not investing on Cold Nuclear Fusion, the topic is not covered by mass media.

    The Cold fusion has to be promoted from the WEB and it is important that it become a civil society revolution.

  187. Craig Binns on June 20, 2011 11:25 AM

    Emanuele Musa

    “The Cold fusion has to be promoted from the WEB and it is important that it become a civil society revolution.”

    Nonsense. Does it work or not?

  188. Mario Ricci on June 20, 2011 12:44 PM

    Without saying specifically so Emanuele seems to side with the optimists such as I am.

    He’s right about the fact that energy doesn’t top our Govt’s agenda.

    But he’s wrong about the media: our state TV covered the e-Cat on RaiNews24 (see videos on the web).

    Emanuele is probably a young Green longing to save the Earth, spurred on by victory in our recent referendum against nuclear power stations.

    Craig instead is a hardline pessimist (to put it mildly) on Rossi’s LENR unit.

    Craig will expect proof that simply will never be forthcoming (industrial secret) from Rossi nor Focardi nor Levi until the pending patent applications are confirmed, if ever.

    The important thing is that Rossi’s e-Cat reactor has repeatedly been shown to work effectively before experts and scientists.

    The guy is not interested in chitchat but only in actual market response.

    But remember, Rossi wanted to avoid speculation and went public only under pressure from the Bologna University.

    Focardi after all will be 80 next year and deserves some recognition before it’s too late!!

    For those of you who can read Italian this link explains a lot:

    I’ll repeat it with Levi’s words: “In Bologna we say that if it crows like a rooster and scrapes like a rooster, then IT IS A ROOSTER!”
    Nothing further will emerge until after the 1MW unit starts in Athens at the end of 2011.

    Don’t you think this blog has reached a dead end?

    Best “energetic” wishes to you all
    Mario the Tuscan Optimist

  189. Jan on June 20, 2011 9:32 PM
  190. Jan on June 20, 2011 9:47 PM

    On January 31st, 2011, Rossi wrote: “The cost to produce the catalyzer is 1 cent per MWh generated; the life expectancy is 20 years; the cost impact is between 1 and 1.5 cents per MWh.”

  191. BFast on June 20, 2011 10:37 PM

    Mario Ricci, “The important thing is that Rossi’s e-Cat reactor has repeatedly been shown to work effectively before experts and scientists.”

    This fact must be tempered with the surprising result that the contents of the reaction are nickel and copper WITH A NORMAL MIX OF ISOTOPES. This result is painfully wierd if the reaction works, and is exactly what would be expected if someone faked the resultant product (which would be really easy.)

    Further, the positive report of experts and scientists must be tempered by a long list of hoaxers that have preceeded Rossi. Is it real or is it a hoax? I cannot believe that it is fooling Rossi. Either it works or he has actively perpetrated the hoax. I am not prepared to consider that he also has been fooled.

  192. Craig Binns on June 20, 2011 10:57 PM

    Mario, you write

    “Craig will expect proof that simply will never be forthcoming (industrial secret) from Rossi nor Focardi nor Levi until the pending patent applications are confirmed, if ever.”

    Preposterous. The “patent office problem” is an obvious scammer’s trick, to allow him to keep milking the suckers as long as possible without producing anything. The Blacklight gang pulled this kind of stunt for years, and their scam has taken $60m. Rossi’s working a similar fraud.

    “The important thing is that Rossi’s e-Cat reactor has repeatedly been shown to work effectively before experts and scientists.”

    No it most certainly has not! Not repeatedly, not even once. It’s a conjuring trick worked with wet steam, to be compared with spoon-bending and sawing ladies in half.

    Look at Steven Krivit’s report in newenergytimes, and Rossi and Levy’s responses with their fulminations and threats of legal action, like the absurd outbursts quoted at posts #1615, #1626 and #1635. And Krivit started as an “optimist” regarding Rossi’s work.

    “The guy is not interested in chitchat but only in actual market response.”

    So you tell us Mario. Why then is he chitchatting like crazy, but there’s nothing for the market to respond to? Market? He’s got 3 companies, Defkalion, Leonardo and Ampenergo, and they have yet to show us a single item of production or a single lepton or centesimo of profit or dividend. Some market that is. Pure scam, more likely.

    He’s allegedly made 300 working e-cats, and he measures their output every day?! He must be like Hercules, all the things he can do in a day!

    But scientists don’t get to see them, and neither does the market. When Edison had made 300 working phonographs, or 300 electric lamps, where were they? In the stores, of course, and the market responded to them with millions of $. These things work. Rossi’s e-cats don’t.

    You write: “I’ll repeat it with Levi’s words: ‘In Bologna we say that if it crows like a rooster and scrapes like a rooster, then IT IS A ROOSTER!'”. The Bolognese saying is right, so put in “scam” instead of rooster.

    Mario, here’s more of Levi’s words, addressed to Steve Krivit, who dared to ask him some pertinent questions:

    “Because you omitted part of information you had, insulted me (and my University) trying to say that I’m not prepared in my field, tried (just tried) to scare me and put me under psychological pressure in order to obtain so far undisclosed data, I will not send you any other information. Regards, Dr. G.Levi.”

    Apply the Bolognese rooster test to that, and tell me if these words come from a scientist – or a fraudster.

    Jan, I know what Rossi says in his blog. I just don’t believe him. That’s the problem.

  193. SlakedMercury on June 21, 2011 12:29 AM

    @Craig Binns

    Here we are all invested in each other. I can even expect help from the crazy old man two miles down the road because he knows that the next time it might be his tractor tire that cannot be fixed and I will lend him one to get him past his immediate need.

    Distance makes the best neighbor.

    Parts are hard to get these days because the idea is that most people can get them by UPS or Fed Ex without much trouble. There used to be more parts suppliers and small shops. To get hydraulic parts I have a one way 60 mile trip. I can look at them and order them on the internet.

    The device Rossi has would be a boon to me if it works. I could run some kind of electrical generation off of it maybe just DC. Then, I could make hydrogen for several uses. Or, I could make AC off a small turbine if the pressure and temperature could be a little higher. Waste heat would be good to heat the buildings as ample water is available in winter.

    Most people are not bad. A very few are just real bad and very self centered.

    I just watched a video made June 14, 2011. Seems simple and yet I thought the device had to have a constant supply of H2. To keep up the pressure and control the device. I do not know what to say of that crew. I see them wearing Stetson’s which makes them even funnier looking. Chemical/Nuclear cowboys. White hats or black?

  194. SlakedMercury on June 21, 2011 12:39 AM

    I did not really answer the question. Science is not spoken here. Technology is user mode only. So, most, myself included, thought science was fairly pure and pristine.

    However,since looking into production of hydrogen, I see that science is a cat fight too. I did not know this. Also, I did not know that ideas could be attacked with such vigor and fevor. Now, I think I have answered your question Craig Binns.

  195. Mario Ricci on June 21, 2011 2:03 AM

    Graig as I said:
    “Nothing further will emerge until after the 1MW unit starts in Athens at the end of 2011.”
    And again
    “Don’t you think this blog has reached a dead end?”
    Do you really think this chitchat is still of any use?

  196. Mario Ricci on June 21, 2011 3:09 AM

    Er, nothing further from Rossi that is.
    The word is now given to Defkalion in Greece, see this link for their forthcoming conference

    Then it’ll be Ampenergo’s turn in the USA

  197. Craig Binns on June 21, 2011 3:18 AM


    Graig as I said:
    “Nothing further will emerge until after the 1MW unit starts in Athens at the end of 2011.”
    And again
    “Don’t you think this blog has reached a dead end?”
    Do you really think this chitchat is still of any use?

    I think it’s a lot of use. If we stop chitchatting, and nothing happens “in Athens at the end of 2011” (I thought it was to be Xanthe in October – but never mind), the people who promoted Rossi as a benefactor of the world WON’T come back and say “we were wrong”, sorry to all the folks that lost their money, and then Rossi and his gang might get away with it, because we now know he has “investors”.

    Anyway the biggest chitchatterer of all is Rossi himself. Look at his journal of nuclear physics blog where he churns out masses of stuff every day. There have to be opposing voices saying: be careful, this looks very much like a scam.

    But if you personally have nothing more to say, then of course you ought to remain silent. That is the right thing for you to do.

  198. Craig Binns on June 21, 2011 10:09 AM


    Our last posts crossed.

    Re the Defkalion press conference. I have indeed noted that “the word is now given to Defkalion”. See my response to this at, post #1643.

    May Defkalion’s “word” be the word of truth, I fervently pray!

  199. Mario Ricci on June 23, 2011 5:18 PM

    Craig you say that
    “the people who promoted Rossi as a benefactor of the world WON’T come back and say “we were wrong”.
    By the way at last Defkalion are on line with a decent site
    full of details.
    In your opinion what should hardline detractors such as you do if it were all true?
    In old western films chewing their stetsons was the typical bet …

  200. Craig Binns on June 24, 2011 5:21 AM


    Ah, the old West with its phoney hellfire preachers and snake-oil merchants! Mark Twain’s two swindlers jump from the pages of Huckleberry Finn to say howdy, folks.

    As to eating my Stetson (we don’t have them here in Scotland, so I’ll just have to eat my “Glasgow bunnet” instead: see I have already promised to eat crow if Defkalion turns out to be on the level. See and page 43 for a discussion of all this. I’m not taking my shotgun to the woods just yet!

    Where DID you get the strange idea that having a “good website” or other kinds of publicity is a criterion of sincerity or probity? You must fall for every scam under the sun! But I hope not.

  201. Mario Ricci on June 30, 2011 1:51 AM

    Glad to see we’re both European though of different opinions.
    Aren’t you too quick to jump to unwarranted conclusions?
    “Defkalion are on line with a decent site” doesn’t mean “sincerity or probity” and surely doesn’t mean that one “must fall for every scam”.
    Or is everybody gullible except you?
    Again I think this blog is beyond its “due date” and that you should start thinking of chewing your Glasgow bunnet (Eating crow is too American for a Scotsman).
    If instead I were wrong I’d get my old military cap out (I don’t wear hats) and have my chew.

  202. Craig Binns on June 30, 2011 12:35 PM


    Very European. At the present moment, I am sitting in the famous Sassi of Matera, Basilicata, and in 3 days my wife Maria and I will be in Lecce, Puglia.

    But I think my “bunnet” is safe. The effect of the Defkalion Conference publicity of 23 June has been to cause some of Rossi’s more rational supporters (and these are not very many) to rethink their position. If ever there was a publication which gave the impression of being designed to mislead its readers, it must be the material produced for that event.

    And see what Krivit, a former Rossi sympathiser, is now saying in New Energy Times.

    But if you personally have nothing to say, then say nothing. Oh, where has your Tuscan optimism gone? I have lots of things to say about this fascinating Strange Affair of the Magic Power Box! It’s a classic!

  203. jr on July 5, 2011 6:45 AM

    Nuke, shcmuke.

    I am surprised that no ‘evaluator’ showed
    up for the party with a clamp-on ammeter.

    It should be easy to find an additional
    10 amps floating around in the apparatus.

    Seems all the ‘testers’ are sleeping and
    proved their incompetence by omission of
    the obvious.


  204. A Way to Invest in the Energy Catalyzer | Cold Fusion News on July 13, 2011 11:43 AM

    […] is not possible to invest directly in Andrea Rossi’s Energy catalyzer cold fusion process. The company developing the technology, Rossi’s Leonardo Corporation and the two companies […]

  205. A Way to Invest in the Energy Catalyzer | eCatNow on July 13, 2011 6:25 PM

    […] is not possible to invest directly in Andrea Rossi’s Energy catalyzer cold fusion process. The company developing the technology, Rossi’s Leonardo Corporation and the two companies […]

  206. Mario Ricci on July 14, 2011 2:46 AM

    You might be interested to know, if you’re still enjoying your Italian holiday, that next week there’ll be a meeting of physicists, housed by Viareggio municipality, discussing the E-Cat potential. Focardi himself will be present by video connection.
    Whether it’s “eating crow” or “munching your bunnet” I feel the day is approaching …
    My old army cap gets safer by the day …
    Your Tuscan Optimist (still)
    In case of need my number is +39 347 3800385

  207. Anonymous on July 15, 2011 6:31 PM

    […] fatto se ne parla in termini di fusione nucleare fredda. Updating the Rossi Focardi Cold Fusion Reactor | New Energy and Fuel Fusione nucleare a freddo "A Bologna ci siamo riusciti" – Bologna – […]

  208. A Way to Invest in the Energy Catalyzer | eCatNow – Energy Catalyzer – Andrea Rossi on July 19, 2011 12:05 AM

    […] is not possible to invest directly in Andrea Rossi’s Energy catalyzer cold fusion process. The company developing the technology, Rossi’s Leonardo Corporation and the two companies […]

  209. Craig Binns on July 19, 2011 8:57 PM


    Thanks for the invitation, but I may be attending the FESTIVAL INTERNAZIONALE DELLA ZAMPOGNA in Scapoli, Isernia  –  where it is said there will be many Scottish visitors (not surprisingly – to non Italian readers, Zampogna means bagpipes) but I look forward to hearing any reports of what Focardi has to say.

    Alas, another piece of evidence, which would have saved your army cap, has disappeared!…_Andrea_Rossi/ Here’s Rossi being interviewed – in Miami, where he lives.

    “Of course, for many years I made a lot of smaller units. They have been used, destroyed, and so on.

    “H – This process as I understand it… well, you said that you have a boiler that has been running for at least a year now?
    “A – It has worked at least one year, when I was there. Now we no longer have the factory.”

    So much evidence of working e-cats, but all “used, destroyed and so on” or simply “we no longer have”. And these are the most important devices ever made by human hands throughout recorded history! How very careless that man is.

    Get a jar of senape ready to flavour that old cap!

  210. Gil on July 22, 2011 11:54 PM

    I see that they changed the link that you posted above. . Here is the working link I found to that reference you posted.

  211. Gil on July 23, 2011 12:17 AM

    I have not been working on my project, since delayed with other things.
    I am looking for a Geiger Counter.
    I found one for sale labled as below.

    Geiger Counter V-715 Meter
    Geiger Counter / Radiation Survey Meter 715
    This model is sensitive to reading radiation at moderate to high levels.
    OCD ITEM NO. CDV-715
    MODEL NO. 1B

    Does anyone know if this Geiger Counter is suitable type to use ?

  212. Mario Ricci on July 24, 2011 2:08 AM


    Some people just won’t accept Rossi’s assertions that he doesn’t care a damn about the press nor the official scientific establishment.

    He’s only concerned about initial actual manufacturing (now in USA) for Defkalion who will later do all manufacturing and marketing themselves (check their site).

    Last night I attended an open meeting in Viareggio “La fusione fredda è diventata realtà?” and Rossi Skyped the audience (over 150) from his US plant with a well-wishing salute stating all is proceeding according to schedule. It was a straight 5-minute only question and answer session.

    Another piece of news at the meeting was that competition seems to be emerging. Focardi’s retired colleague Piantelli, retired from Siena University, is behind an effort by a private group to revamp the earlier Piantelli-Focardi experiments. They are pushing for patents on the quiet after letting an earlier one expire. They have a revised and improved version of a Ni-H only reactor (no catalyst) which is also said to amplify energy by a max 200 factor.

    Whether it be Rossi or Piantelli the important thing is that the world gets a chance of eventually discarding fossil fuels and have cheap and portable energy.

    And Craig, I feel you will need senape (mustard) for your Glasgow bunnet.
    My old artillery cap seems ever safer.

    Mario – a Tuscan optimist

  213. Craig Binns on July 24, 2011 3:25 AM


    Here is some of what you wrote in your last post, with my comments:

    “Some people just won’t accept Rossi’s assertions that he doesn’t care a damn about the press nor the official scientific establishment.”

    I am one of these people. Here is why. Rossi and his followers continually complain about the lack of interest displayed by the press. Is that not so? And if Rossi doesn’t care about the scientific establishment, why the Kullander and Essen demonstration, the alleged visits to Uppsala and so on? Why the violent insults directed at Steven Krivit, who dared to ask some scientific questions and tried to obtain precise data?

    “He’s only concerned about initial actual manufacturing (now in USA) for Defkalion who will later do all manufacturing and marketing themselves (check their site).”

    Dear me! Not in Xanthe after all. It will happen in Xanthe “later”. So all the press conference stuff was false, about the imminent production in Greece. And we find out from his recent interview that his place of residence is in fact Miami. If all this doesn’t suggest to you that he’s a swindler, I don’t know what more evidence you need!

    “Last night I attended an open meeting in Viareggio “La fusione fredda è diventata realtà?” and Rossi Skyped the audience (over 150) from his US plant with a well-wishing salute stating all is proceeding according to schedule. It was a straight 5-minute only question and answer session.”

    A well-wishing salute. Is that enough for you? As we say in Scotland: you’re easy pleased! I would have thought you might have demanded specific and precise information. Was any of this given in the 5 minute only question and answer session? If so, please pass it on to me, and other interested readers.

    And who were the 150 people who attended the open meeting? What did they discuss? What conclusions did they reach, and on the basis of what evidence? These are the things people will want to know. Can you help?

    I think I’ll probably find out as much about cold fusion at the bagpipe festival as you did at the open meeting in Viareggio.

    You say that Focardi and Piantelli “have a revised and improved version of a Ni-H only reactor (no catalyst) which is also said to amplify energy by a max 200 factor”.

    Dear God! Another bunch of crooks. Rossi gets factor 31 WITH his magic catalyst. F & P get factor 200 WITHOUT the catalyst. And you believe this? Are you suggesting that Rossi’s magic catalyst makes the reaction proceed about 7 times MORE SLOWLY?

    Perhaps you should wear the old cap to keep your brain warm, for the few weeks before you have to eat it. (Eat your cap, I mean, not your brain.)

  214. Craig Binns on July 24, 2011 3:53 AM


    Sorry to trouble you again.
    Here’s what Defkalion has to say about production. Not a word about it being initially in the US, and only “later” in Greece. Is somebody lying? What is your source for the US story?
    Our first factory is in preparation phase, located in Xanthi, Northern Greece. … The second factory is scheduled to be built in Xanthi within 2012.
    Manufacturing. With three factories located in Xanthi, the region shall gain in employment but also become an international hub where global investors and partners will visit the factory for business and product viewings.

  215. Gil on July 26, 2011 12:12 AM

    In this yahoo group, there is a little discusion about this same debate.

    Also there is a person named Craig who has the same views as this one.
    Is this the same Craig in that group ?

  216. Gil on July 26, 2011 12:18 AM

    I think this contrarian view is very helpful, as it helps us get a more critical viewpoint of this project, and see it from different prospectives.

  217. Gil on July 26, 2011 12:26 AM

    I still believe that this reactor works, but I will not take any bets, as I have no interest in eating my hat, and it’s bad enough eating crow.

  218. Jan on July 26, 2011 1:42 AM

    The Factory will start to produce energy in October this year. No money, upfront! As simple as that.

  219. Craig Binns on July 26, 2011 2:41 AM


    Sorry, the “delays” typical of scams have now started. We weren’t told that the factory would produce energy – factories often do this, no big deal. We were told it would produce e-cats and people would own one and get power for one penny per kilowatt hour, and sexy stuff like that.

    But now? “Domestic reactors will have to wait a couple of years due to certifications.”

    This is exactly what happened with previous free energy scams, like Blacklight. Delay after delay, delivery never. You are allowing yourself to be deceived by a swindle. Not Rossi’s first swindle either!

  220. Jan on July 26, 2011 12:04 PM


    The factory will produce energy, as far as I am informed. They will not sell e-cats.

    Craig, please let me know where you have read that they will sell e-cats in the Autumn 2011?

  221. Jan on July 26, 2011 12:10 PM
  222. Gil on July 26, 2011 1:39 PM

    Craig, – In one yahoo group, there is a little discusion about this same debate.
    Also there is a person named Craig who has the same views as this one.
    Are you the same Craig in that group ?
    I posted the question here yesterday, and have a link in it to that yahoo group, but it is waiting moderation.
    You will be able to see the link when they eventually post my previous comment.

  223. Gil on July 26, 2011 1:42 PM

    I hope no one takes offence with the picture on this link.
    No crows were harmed as far as I know.

  224. Craig Binns on July 26, 2011 2:10 PM


    I said produce. The factory is using “multiples of smaller units” as a showcase from inauguration in Q4 2001. More to come, but see “The 1MW Hyperion will be inaugurated in Q4 of 2011 with its production phase to commence in Q1 of 2012. This first 1MW reactor will be the first large scale unit based on multiples of the smaller Hyperion models in array. It will be used to partially cover the energy needs of the factory. It shall also be used as a show case unit.”

    A showcase of smaller units in array, they say. But more to come.

  225. Craig Binns on July 26, 2011 2:20 PM

    Jan see “Presently, Rossi says they are manufacturing a 1 megawatt plant composed of 125 modules. These modules should begin shipping by the end of October. On January 31st, 2011, Rossi wrote: ‘The cost to produce the catalyzer is 1 cent per MWh generated; the life expectancy is 20 years; the cost impact is between 1 and 1.5 cents per MWh.'”

    Modules shipping by end October. OK? More to come.

  226. Craig Binns on July 26, 2011 2:28 PM

    Jan “The public opening of this plant will be in the last week of October 2011. Rossi has said recently that he is on schedule. Invited guests will be able to see the plant in action. The plant is made up of 300 4 kW E-Cat units, giving it a maximum output capacity of 1.2 MW.”

    That’s 300 of the small units by October. That’s the sexy promise. Otherwise who cares how a Greek factory gets powered?

    More to come, but you can tell me when to stop, if you want.

  227. Craig Binns on July 26, 2011 2:35 PM

    Jan “A Greek company called Praxen Defkalion Green Technologies Ltd wants to be the first to put the energy catalyzer in your home. Defkalion is developing a home heating called the Hyperion which would be powered by Andrea Rossi’s energy catalyzer cold fusion process. The process would use steam generated by the e-cat to heat a home and generate electricity. The company hopes to bring the Hyperion to market in late fall or early winter 2011.”

    Only “hopes” I admit. So maybe that one doesn’t count. Want more?

  228. Craig Binns on July 26, 2011 2:45 PM

    Jan “They also claim to be going into production, with the first units expected to ship by the second half of October of this year, with mass production commencing by the end of 2011.”

    Will that do for now? More – MUCH more – whenever you want.

  229. Jan on July 27, 2011 4:03 AM

    so, wait till Autumn of this year.

  230. Gil on August 2, 2011 1:49 AM

    With much regret, I need to say to you, that
    at this point, I am forced to agree with you.

    Study this webpage in detail.
    It is relatively short.

    In this video, including Rossi’s statements,
    it gives all the evidence needed to
    show that the device is not working.
    There is not that much info on this link,
    so that you can read it as many times as you need.

    This short video may assist people in understanding the situation.
    Rossi E-Cat vs. steam kettle comparison

  231. Gil on August 4, 2011 4:42 PM

    Due to the information that I have been reading, about the proofs and disproofs and competency of many people involved in many facets of the Rossi reactor, I have found some information somewhat annoying.

    So, if there is any possibility of this device working, I have decided to put my construction reproduction descriptions available to anyone wishing to try to do so.

    Basic reproduction of the hardware is much simpler then what it first looks.
    You will have to figure out what is best to put inside, but this gives you an idea of how to begin, should you have no idea where to start.
    Here is the website I have posted many reproduction ideas.
    You can ask for more info to see if anyone can help.
    I have titled the thread –
    “Building a reactor”

  232. Craig Binns on August 15, 2011 10:40 PM


    Where are you now, when we need you? On 21 June, you wrote this:
    “The word is now given to Defkalion in Greece, see this link for their forthcoming conference
    Then it’ll be Ampenergo’s turn in the USA”

    Since then the “word” has changed, no? As I said at the time, “May Defkalion’s ‘word’ be the word of truth, I fervently pray!” but the Lord didn’t answer my prayers, Mario, because now Rossi is calling Defkalion liars, and is taking legal action against them, and they won’t be manufacturing e-cats in October or any other time. (Nobody will, because they’re phoney.)

    My hat’s getting safer and safer every day!

  233. Mario Ricci on August 17, 2011 12:49 PM

    It was my turn to be on holiday by the graceful Lake of Blsena, you should visit it next time you leave misty Scotland.
    Further to my post on 24th July, about Rossi’s competitors, please see this link
    about Piantelli’s rival LENR.
    All we can hope is that competition will result in better conditions for us all.
    Who cares if it’s Rossi or Piantelli or somebody else.
    LENR’s are an emerging physical reality heading for the energy market, whether it’s the October 1MW unit in the US or something else elsewehere.
    Doesn’t it make you wonder that Defkalion, though rebuffed, still confirm with hype the reliability of Rossi’s E-Cat?
    Again I cannot but wait for October.
    My army cap is still optimistic ….

  234. Craig Binns on August 19, 2011 11:46 PM


    As long ago as April 7, you wrote these words

    “Where work is a value of life, people would no longer pay idle laggards who live on oil trade. Cultures that do not value work will have to think again. Muslims, without oil money, might finally realize they also need an Enlightenment, to start using Reason and accept that Muhammad was just a personality cult master and that the time has come to discard his absurd Koran. Otherwise, without working, without easy cash, we’ll see them leave their Cadillacs and mount camels again. Some of you will call me a dreamer but then let me dream in style!”

    I fear that your dreams about Muslims and their camels will never become reality. The recent squabbling between Defkalion and Rossi – about money, of course – is a sign that the whole thing is a total swindle. For example, what has happened to the e-cat that was heating the factory near Ferrara, or the 97 other working devices that Rossi used to examine every day? Perhaps they are in Florida, where Rossi now resides.

    It saddens me that your optimism allows you to believe stories invented by crooks.

  235. Micheal Muramoto on August 30, 2011 8:42 AM

    I REALLY liked your post and blog! It took me a minute bit to find your site…but I bookmarked it. Would you mind if I posted a link back to your post?

  236. Gil on August 30, 2011 11:16 PM

    I extremely dislike this statement from Craig about manufacturing e-cats –
    “(Nobody will, because they’re phoney.)”
    The reason is that evidence is beginning to show it to be correct.
    There is definitely a problem somewhere.

    These sites below show steam energy output for comparisons to the e-cat

    This video shows 4 kw output of steam energy.

    starting at about 2:20 the video shows about 1 kw steam energy output.

    starting at about 11:20 the steam output from the ecat is shown.

  237. Gil on August 30, 2011 11:20 PM

    These below are clickable links.
    These sites show steam energy output for comparisons to the e-cat
    This video shows 4 kw output of steam energy.

    starting at about 2:20 the video shows about 1 kw steam energy output.

    starting at about 11:20 the steam output from the ecat is shown.

  238. Mario Ricci on August 31, 2011 1:46 AM

    Craig hasn’t been showing any moderation in his dislike for Rossi to the point that it seems a personal matter.
    Mr Rossi had problems 20 yrs ago past (I tend to accept he was framed by waste disposal competitors) but he’s in this e-Cat venture with people like Focardi and many other scientists of renown, as well as the Alma Mater of Bologna.
    Time and again I’ve said we need to wait and October is only weeks away.
    Is it so difficult to give him the benefit of the doubt?
    Mario a Tuscan Optimist

  239. Gil on August 31, 2011 3:47 PM

    I need to keep reminding people.
    If people can not see the difference between 1 kw output, and 5 kw output, then it will be much harder to tell the difference between 200kw and 1000 kw .
    Therefore, the 1000 kw demonstration will be considered a complete success.

    Therefore, if people do not question the 5 kw devise to see if it is correct, they will consider the october demonstration to be a complete success.

    Did you view the videos above to see how they compared ?
    Rossi would hsve been better to say that the 5 kw device was not working well at that test.

    Rossi says he is doing everything of his own expence. According to info, the potential investors put money in escrow fund.

    One piece of info I read was that money would be held until the investor was satisfied the device worked.

    Another comment said that money would be held until the october tests proved that it worked.

    Then they will claim that this 1000kw device works, at the october test, as no one knows any better. They will call it a success, even though we have this video showing that there is severe problem with the 5 kw test.

    Will Rossi get all the escrow money at that point, when there is no real actual evidence of the device puting out the energy claimed ?

    The simple tests showing actual output refuse to be made. How do you explain that ?

    Just put the output hose in a large bucket of cold water. Measure mass of water, temp change, and time period. This has nothing to do with effecting the internals of the reactor. Anyone should be allowed to just stick the output hose into a bucket of cold water , as it effects no one else.
    This will easily give output accuracy within 10%. This will not be done.
    Everybody that demands that simple test is considered a snake.

    The theoretical febuary water only test was done in a sham. No good output results could be made. People should not even consider talking about that test.

    You will come to a realization that there is a major problem somewhere.
    All I want to see in october is this simple output test done on any of the smaller devices.
    It is so much simpler to do the test on a 5 kw output, then to do it on a theoretical 1000kw output.

    I would really like to see this devise actually work and put out real energy, but I do not see the energy output, and now I wonder how much of everything that has been said is true and how much is made up.

    Thankyou for reading such alone article.
    I did not expect to write so much when i started.

  240. BFast on August 31, 2011 4:19 PM

    I hold strongly with Mario the Tuscan Optimist. The cost of waiting until Nov 1 is so small. The benefit of being able to say “I told you so” is even smaller.

  241. Isreal Tacheny on August 31, 2011 8:36 PM

    Hello, this is my first time i visit here. I found so many interesting in your blog especially on how to determine the topic. keep up the good work.

  242. Gil on September 3, 2011 11:47 PM

    A completely hypothetical situation.
    This would NOT happen in reality.

    If hypothetical situations bother you, DO NOT READ.

    Suppose you are a researcher and inventor, and someone told you that your device was developing much less energy output then you thought it was.
    The experts said to you that all you have to do, is to put the output tube in a pail of cold water, and measure the time interval, temperature increase, and mass of water.
    They said, if you just let someone else do this for you, you need do nothing.

    WOULD YOU DO IT, just so that you would know if your invention worked as you thought it was ?
    Or would you tell them that they are a snake and are just trying to discredit you ?

  243. Craig Binns on September 4, 2011 8:08 AM


    The cost of waiting is small only if you don’t invest any money. But people are investing money in Rossi, and perhaps in companies that would make profits if this imaginary technology was ever realised.

    These people will have high waiting costs. I would like the magic energy machine to work – who wouldn’t? But that is how scammers operate; they hold out attractive prospects, and let people use their imaginations rather than their good sense. The Rossi affair is a perfect example of this process.

  244. John Jan Popovic on September 4, 2011 9:53 AM

    The 1 MW plant that we will start with operations in October 2011. Very high level, world class scientists are invited to visit 1 MW plant.

    A. Rossi has invited Brian Josephson, the Nobel Prize-winning physicist.

    There’s no publicly traded stock of Defkalion. Rossi and Defkalion have all the money they need.

    Many will be irritated (ad personam level) when I state that it is pure Alchemy in action, and not Fusion.

  245. BFast on September 5, 2011 12:11 PM

    Gil, your hypothetical is very hypothetical.

    Rossi has given three qualified experts cart blanch to the heat measuring system of his invention for hours at a time. None of the three qualified experts have any doubt that his invention puts out the heat described.

    Now, some expert (in news reporting) comes with a camera for a 5 minute look around, and declares that the work of the three experts (in nuclear physics, energy, and scam detection) is bogus. What do you do? Do you stop the world to give the reporter the time of day, or do you blow him off?

    I do not find it puzzling that in these circumstances Dr. Rossi chose to blow off the reporter.

  246. BFast on September 5, 2011 12:23 PM

    Craig Bins, “The cost of waiting is small only if you don’t invest any money.”

    Thanks for saving the world from itself. If you are right, the chances that your negative but unqualified chatter will cause one to not invest in Rossi (especially when Rossi isn’t offering a clear investment channel) is remote. Do note that every other energy scam, the ones that have asked for investment, have all had detracting voices like yours. Most of these scams have had qualified detractors.

    Consider my efforts to save the world from itself. What if Rossi is right? What if his machine works! I know, remote. (Remember, I’m saying 10% chance, so I am hardly suggesting that it is a certainty to anyone.) I am, suggesting that major areas of investment, such as in traditional energy, are likely to be hit hard and fast if this technology is for real. I am suggesting to people that they reduce their holdings in energy, moving to technologies that would benefit from free energy (like cell phones and shipping). All of these areas of investment (energy, cell phones, shipping) are sensible places to invest if the Rossi is bogus. I have not suggested to anyone that they give money to Rossi.

    (I admit that I have suggested putting some play money into a “big win if it works” investment. But this is hardly the kind of investment that I, or anyone with a level head, would sell the farm to invest into.)

    Bottom line — All “free enrgy” technologies have yappers saying its bogus, and people invest anyway. Therefore being an “its bogus” yapper does nobody any good.

  247. Gil on September 6, 2011 10:28 AM

    I was not influenced by the news reporting about the video that was made. I watched the video, and Rossi clearly stated that 5 kw was being produced.

    You can check the video. Nothing is said on the video about the problem of being a shortage of steam energy output.
    I have worked with steam extensively, with steam boilers, and steam calculations.

    When the video showed the steam output,
    Rossi clearly said “the steam is very hot”.
    This statement is somewhat deceptive, because
    of course, steam is hot enough to burn you.
    Check the video and you will see this.

    So, when I saw the steam output, as they were showing it, I was almost in shock, that there was only in the range of 1 kw of steam energy output. I did not need to read anywhere, that this only looked like 1 kw steam energy.

    There was a saying that a picture dosen’t lie.
    Well, now pictures can be photoshoped.
    It is much harder to modify a video, but
    there is no reason to do so.
    I am sure that the video was not altered.
    No one is claiming that it was altered.

    You can have several experts in physics and nuclear energy, who do not have real world experience in what steam energy output should look like, and they could be fooled into thinking that the energy output was there.

    No one has done a proper test of steam energy output. What we describe is a simple test of steam energy output that is easy to do.

    I would seriously like to see this device work.
    At the moment, the best that I can hope for is that this device actually produces more energy then is input.
    That will give people something to start working with to increase output.
    So far, we do not see it.

  248. Gabriella Boydstun on September 7, 2011 3:25 AM

    Thanks for posting. Good to see that not everyone is using RSS feeds to build their blogs 😉

  249. José M. Hidalgo on September 7, 2011 6:17 AM

    You have the work of Yoshiaki Arata? They use a nanocatalyst with Pd, the obtain through electrolysis some fusion! but only some…

    Rossi can use nano Ni which can take hydrogen or deuterium, applying only some flow of electrons… and taking more energy than he put… produce nanocatalyst of Ni is really easy and more cheap than using Pd or Pt…

    are you physicians??? maybe you need an expert chemist in heterogeneous catalysis. Mixing different knowledges!! and we will obtain the fusion, clear fusion, can be, we need to change the world

    Maybe Rossi has not the solution or maybe he has but the more important is to try all to obtain a clean source of energy.

    Nice to read all your interesting comments!

  250. William Lyne on September 9, 2011 11:08 PM

    This device by Focardi-Rossi is actually a version of my “Lyne Atomic Hydrogen Furnace”, and is the result of the dissemination by a group of researchers in Rome (which made me an honorary member of their society several years ago) of my Chapter VI (with my permission) of my 1997 book, “Occult Ether Physics” (second ed.). Specifically, page 102, “…the reactor surfaces which receive and catalyze the recombining gas atoms”, and page 103, “…’activation energy’ device (spark plug, catalytic metal, etc.” Focardi-Rossi however created an ingenious design for their reaction chamber. They cannot explain the reaction to the satisfaction of the patent examiners. This experiment is not “cold fusion”, having no consumption of hydrogen, and no loss of mass, thus refuting Einstein’s equation, “E = MC squared” just as I said in 1997. It verifies Nikola Tesla’s theory of radioactivity as well as my assertion that the atomic hydrogen reaction is capable of “over-unity” energy production.

  251. John Jan Popovic on September 10, 2011 12:02 AM


    Indeed, you are correct. We must wait until 2015 and main Academia will accept/disclose Tesla and Thoth’s Alchemy. Willian, disclosure is near, some other things must be harmonised before. I also know the industrialists in Switzerland and in one other country who have 100 kW AC electric energy ZPE device, zero emission, no fuel.

  252. John Jan Popovic on September 10, 2011 12:56 AM

    when you state “Rossi can not explain the reaction to the satisfaction of the patent examiners.” it is a curious point. When Columbus has found West Indies, he also did not imagined that he has serendipitously “bumped” to whole new continent.

    This Terra Nuova will be later called by geographers America.
    Likewise the theory behind Rossi’s device which transforms Ni into Cu has yet to be disclosed.
    It is NOT cold fusion! Yes, William, you are correct, it verifies Nikola Tesla’s theory of radioactivity, i.e. Hermes/Thoth Alchemy, but this is yet an another topic ..

  253. Gil on September 10, 2011 2:57 AM

    William – Can you give us any explanation as to why we do not see video evidence on the video that was made, and shown, which does not show any large surplus of energy in the form of steam output ?

  254. John Jan Popovic on September 10, 2011 4:58 AM

    Rossi H-Ni over-unity device works and it is perfectly engineerable.
    The (cold) fusion theory dogma is simply wrong and can and will not never explain Rossi H-Ni device and non radioactive copper creation.
    Walther Gerlach alchemy and ancient hermetic knowledge can explain Rossi reaction H + Ni = Cu + energy

  255. Mildred Coffey on September 11, 2011 7:26 PM

    Awesome post. I so good to see someone taking the time to share this information

  256. William Lyne on September 11, 2011 9:29 PM

    The explanation of the Focardi-Rossi device was stated in the 2009 Russian edition of my third edition of Occult Ether Physics (EXMO Publishers) and the 2010 third edition in English. The energy from the reaction comes from what Tesla called “Primary Solar Rays”, ubiquitious high energy particles emitted by the sun and other stars. These particles ordinarily pass through everything and come from all directions, except that this radiation is the basis for radioactivity, the so-called radioactive elements having the capacity to capture and transform that energy into secondary radioactive emissions, or in the case of atomic hydrogen, heat energy. In the case of atomic hydrogen, the recombination of the atoms is somehow a form of “artificial radioactivity” which arrests and converts the energy of Primary Solar Rays to heat energy (IR radiation). The conversion of that energy to steam production is a matter of heat transfer, which is also one convenient means to measure the output. The efficiency of this conversion is a technical problem which must minimize any losses and prevent the melting or burnout of components at the extremely high temperatures for the atomic hydrogen reaction, if it purports to represent a viable and usable technology for the production of energy on a long-term basis.
    The problem with Langmuir is that he never actually measured the input, having calculated it backwards from the output, with the mistaken assumption that the input had to be equal to the output because of his relativist beliefs. And it was this faulty relativist theory which caused him to fail to discover the over-unity possibilites for atomic hydrogen.

  257. José M. Hidalgo on September 12, 2011 12:49 AM

    It is really interesting, really important to have open mind to new research. We will see in october… Only I would like to ask you where can I find some literature to try to understand what is happening in the reaction Ni+H — Cu, because with clasic teories is not possible to understand, it is necessary too much energy to have this reaction. If I have some books with alchemy or some pseudo-science, I am sorry but it is not enough for me. It can be useful to start a new teory to science.
    literature, books, internet?

    Thank you very much, I want to learn.

  258. John Jan Popovic on September 12, 2011 1:16 AM
  259. William Lyne on September 12, 2011 11:37 AM

    To tell you the truth the transmutation of the nickel to copper was a surprise to me. The second edition of my book which was 1997 was fourteen-year-old technology. I don’t need a special catalyst to trigger the recombination of the atomic hydrogen. My present design is way ahead of the 1997 concept but it is presently secret. I got tired of having people taking my ideas and calling their own, with absolutely no attribution. The technology now is for me and my backers.

  260. Craig Binns on September 12, 2011 3:54 PM


    “Bottom line — All “free enrgy” technologies have yappers saying its bogus”

    That’s because they all ARE bogus, up to now. In all cases lunacy or scams.

    Up to know the yappers have always been right.

    Of course it is always possible that this time William Lyne is right with his Occult Ether Physics, described above. But I think yapping is a safer bet.

  261. Craig Binns on September 12, 2011 4:00 PM


    Or maybe John Jan Popovic is right that “Walther Gerlach alchemy and ancient hermetic knowledge can explain Rossi reaction H + Ni = Cu + energy”; however they don’t know much about ancient hermetic knowledge at Uppsala University, so this theoretical approach hasn’t been fully explored yet.

  262. John Jan Popovic on September 12, 2011 6:01 PM

    The transmutation can be induced by particular “electrolytical” methods. Successful experiments by professors Drs. Miethe and Stammreich from 1920s.

  263. John Jan Popovic on September 12, 2011 6:14 PM
  264. John Jan Popovic on September 13, 2011 3:54 AM

    José, and this .. fine book on Alchemy

    Most of the work in making the Stone consists of optimizing the heat to be the perfect temperature. The degree of heat must be under strict control; too much and you will destroy the work, too little and it will not develop.

    the external fire of the furnace should be neither too violent (in order that the equilibrium of chemical forces in the substance may not be disturbed), nor yet too gentle, so that the action of the inward fire may not languish for want of outward heat. It should be just such as to keep up an equable vital warmth.

    A Brief Guide to the Celestial Ruby, by Eirenaeus Philalethes, 1694 AD
    The happy prosecution of the whole work, consists in the exact temperament of the fire; therefore beware of too much heat, lest you come to solution before the time, viz., before the mater is ripe; for that will brig you to despair of attaining the end of your hopes.

    […] Close up well they vessel, and pursue to the end. For there is no generation of things, but by putrefaction, by keeping out the air, and a continual internal motion, with an equal and gentle heat.

    The Root of the World, by Roger Bacon, 13th Cen.

  265. John Jan Popovic on September 13, 2011 1:27 PM

    “It’s a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.” – Sherlock Holmes (Sir Arthur Conan Doyle)

  266. José M. Hidalgo on September 14, 2011 12:38 AM

    OK, thank you John, never have a closed mind. Nobody in X century thought about the actual technology… I´m going to try to learnt something about these works.

  267. Mario Tuscan Optimist on September 15, 2011 4:07 AM

    Craig and Bfast,

    You should be interested in this video and photos

    on the 1MW container which is stated to have been assembled in Bologna (with components from USA) meant for Defkalion but now to be shipped ready-made back to the USA.

    Craig keep your Glasgow bunnet ready!
    My artillery cap is relaxing.


  268. Craig Binns on September 16, 2011 9:48 AM


    From PESN

    “- The one megawatt plant will be “mostly” self sustaining, in that for the majority of the time it will operate without any external input of power.

    “- The date and location of the launch of the one megawatt plant will be kept confidential until the day before the launch. (Invited guests will have 1 week notice.) This is because the location of the one megawatt plant would immediately reveal the identity of Rossi’s partner company.”

    Now, even your artillery cap without your head under it must have enough brains to know that a “mostly” self sustaining machine made by an unknown company in a secret place MUST be a swindle.

    But it was to be October, so your cap has only one month of existence left!

  269. Jerrard Dunne on September 16, 2011 3:13 PM

    Looking at the Rossi one megawatt generator, the water pump appears to be no more than a 2-5 HP
    pump. The steam outlet no more than a 2inch pipe. One magawatt is equal to at least 1300hp at750 watts per one horsepower.
    How on earth can such a small supply of water from the pump feed this power. The outlet pipe
    would be far to small for the amount of steam
    this power would produce.Any comment?

  270. Rich Corporal on September 16, 2011 3:17 PM

    Great read. Thanks for the info!

  271. Gil on September 16, 2011 8:55 PM

    I am feeling confident that Craig’s Glasgow bunnet is safe!

    I agree that that 2 inch pipe is on the small side. They would not use that small size in industry for 1 mw.
    Although it will be a restriction, with a lot more pressure behind it, it would be quite a gusher if it worked.

  272. Gil on September 16, 2011 11:22 PM

    I have posted my simplified construction plans, explaining how to build an ecat, should anyone have any interest in that.
    I posted them on this page, and on this link are also links, to more pages of my construction information.
    I have about 6 pages. (most are short descriptions)

  273. Gil on September 16, 2011 11:23 PM

    I have posted my simplified construction plans, explaining how to build an ecat, should anyone have any interest in that.
    I posted them on this page, and on this link are also links, to more pages of my construction information.
    I have about 6 pages. (most are short descriptions)

  274. Jacquline Youell on September 17, 2011 7:44 PM

    I’ve been checking your blog for a while now, seems like everyday I learn something new :-) Thanks

  275. Tanisha Doescher on September 18, 2011 6:35 PM

    Interesting read, perhaps the best article iv’e browse today. We learn everyday cheers to you!

  276. BFast on September 19, 2011 1:18 PM

    Mario Tuscan, thanks for the link. Mario and Craig, check out the steam output at this link:

    Now that’s a dump of energy! Remember, this thing has been spittin’ out steam without any energy input for 35 minutes! In the video it gushes out the steamy water (I know, this isn’t dry steam) for nearly a minute and a half. There is no sense at all that the steam is diminishing in that time. The “thermal intertia” theory doesn’t come close to flying with this type of energy output.

    Craig, I am a bit baffled that you would find the desire to do a splash introduction is seen as proof of fraud to you. I also fail to see why “almost self-sustaining” would produce the same reaction. (I personally think that you will cry fraud when my home becomes heated by Rossi’s intended commercial heater.) In the above link you notice a 12 degree drop in temperature during the 35 minutes of “self-sustaining” operation. It seems sensible that a reheating every half hour or so for 10 minutes or so is reasonable.

    Craig, I personally recommend that you marinate your Glasgow bunnet in worcestershire sauce to make it a bit more palatable. I am increasing my holdings in cyclone power.

  277. Gil on September 20, 2011 6:52 PM

    The above link has the video named –
    See the E-cat run in self-sustained mode
    I find it easier to watch at this link on Youtube.

  278. Craig Binns on September 21, 2011 1:39 AM


    Careful with Cyclone Power. Remember the auditor’s report. The only people who will make money are the smart ones who get out before the inevitable crash. Look up the history of the Dutch Tulip Bubble of 1636, or the South Sea Bubble of 1720.

    Also remember PESN: “The date and location of the launch of the one megawatt plant will be kept confidential until the day before the launch. (Invited guests will have 1 week notice.) This is because the location of the one megawatt plant would immediately reveal the identity of Rossi’s partner company.”

    That’s really not enough info for me. And the split with Defkalion after all the fanfare about how they were going to rejuvenate the Greek economy. Have you forgotten your enthusiastic welcome for this, Mario? It was all fraud and lies. Defkalion hadn’t the slightest intention of investing a brass lepton.

    As to the science of the thing … There’s you, Brucefast, saying, wow that puff of steam looks just dandy to me! And then there’s Steve Krivit’s devastating detailed reports. Who do I believe has got it right? That is a rhetorical question.

  279. Mario Tuscan Optimist on September 23, 2011 3:13 AM


    To keep his commitments Rossi’s sold his property to raise funds, definitely not the behaviour of a cheat.
    See this link

    Of course you’ll answer yet again with spiteful and venomous comments ……..

    Mario the (still) Tuscan Optimist

  280. Craig Binns on September 25, 2011 10:01 AM


    Spiteful and venomous comments follow.

    What is your evidence that Rossi has had to sell his house? Why should I believe Rossi, or these idiots at PESN? What house? In America? In Italy?

    Do you believe drivel like this, from the same PESN article?

    “Only several days ago, Andrea Rossi stated on his blog that he had big financial problems. Now he has revealed that these problems are resolved. To acquire the funds to insure the demo of the one megawatt plant takes place as planned, he has sold his house. The personal sacrifices he has made to bring the E-Cat (Energy Catalyzer) to the market are becoming heart wrenching.”

    Stomach churning they mean! And it gets worse: “Andrea Rossi should be thanked for his willingness to make such significant personal sacrifices. Instead, skeptics and naysayers are still chattering on the internet, trying to grasp any imaginary straw they can, in order to find something they can use to try and tarnish his reputation.”

    What reputation? This man has been in prison for gold smuggling and pollution of parts of Italy with toxic waste!

    These “heart wrenching” stories are typical of the latter stages of scams. The promoter doesn’t deliver, so we are treated to human stories about his saintly personal sacrifices. (Which are also used later as an excuse for further delay. We’ll hear something like this very soon: Poor Mr Rossi, he’s living in a Salvation Army hostel for the homeless – how can you expect him to deliver the ecat on time?)

    Give me evidence that he is speaking the truth. We have had so many lies before. Where is Defkalion, which was to rejuvenate the Greek economy? Today BBC reports that a Greek government debt default is inevitable. The Grrek economy has collapsed. Defkalion never put a penny into anything.

    Stop being so foolishly credulous, Mario, or get ready to eat that artillery cap. You have a few weeks to prepare.

  281. Gil on September 25, 2011 5:35 PM

    This post is for all those of us who still think that the ecat can still work.
    At these links you will find posts of some very detailed descriptions of how to build an ecat.
    If you follow the links given, you will find the links to a couple other people’s websites describing their ecat constructions.
    They all have very good ideas.
    The main links are numbered up to “12” parts.

    I am posting these newest links below, as these are my last concluding ecat construction ideas, that I had been thinking about, before I felt confident that Craig’s Glasgow bunnet is safe.

  282. Mario Tuscan Optimist on September 26, 2011 2:47 AM


    One wonders what the hell could Rossi have done to you the way you deny him any benefit of the doubt.

    For the more balanced readers here’s an interesting link from about 6th Oct Test by Nobel Prize Brian Josephson

    For the non-Italian readers: the English text is more than sufficient anyway.

    Any more spiteful and venomous comments?

    Mario the (still) Tuscan Optimist

  283. Craig Binns on September 26, 2011 6:21 PM


    “One wonders what the hell could Rossi have done to you the way you deny him any benefit of the doubt.” you say. But you know better than that.

    Rossi has undertaken to rewrite the whole of human science as we know it. Do you believe this?

    Rossi’s blog is supposed to be a peer-reviewed journal. His house sales have nothing to do with the science. If he was an honest scholar he wouldn’t mention such things. The fact that he does mention them means that he’s a fraud.

    I say to you: on 31 October, if there is no megawatt e-cat, you will say admit is a fraud.

  284. Kiera Badanguio on September 27, 2011 2:14 AM

    I’ve just started off a blog, the knowledge you give on this site has aided me extremely. Thank you for all your time & work.

  285. Anton on October 1, 2011 12:56 PM

    Well, it’s October – any news?

  286. BFast on October 1, 2011 3:14 PM

    Anton, you’re a bit impatient. Dr. Rossi has always promised to release the 1mw plant BY THE END of October. He has released some pictures of the 1mw plant, and a new video. He will be doing a 12 hour demonstration on October 6. His invitation list includes physicists from USA, Russia, China, Japan, Switzerland, Italy and others. The invitation list includes a Nobel lariat, and the European patent office. (To get full details, check out the news feed on It should be an interesting month.

  287. S Jerrard-Dunne on October 1, 2011 4:17 PM

    Here is some news.
    The Hadron collider scientists have stated they
    have accelerated neutrino particules faster than the speed of light.
    Maybe the present quantum theories need to be
    Maybe there is some hope for the Rossi and Focardi semi cold fusion LENR units.

  288. Craig Binns on October 2, 2011 5:05 PM

    S Jerrard-Dunne

    I don’t think your conclusion follows naturally from the facts you adduce. We don’t know enough about the neutrinos yet to make any firm statements.

    And I am at a loss to perceive any connection between these neutrinos and cold fusion.

    You seem to be saying,
    1 Some things really happen, and they are not understood
    2 Cold fusion is not understood
    3 Therefore cold fusion is really happening.

    But this is merely an invalid misuse of logic.

  289. John Jan Popovic on October 3, 2011 1:54 AM

    Rossi’s device simply works. Sometimes things are working without any conventional theory.

    Within just a few weeks the test starts.

    • The test will begin in the last week of October

    • The test will last for about two months.

    • The other scientists who attend the test will have full access to everything except the reactor.

  290. S Jerrard_Dunne on October 3, 2011 6:39 AM

    Craig Binns
    Thanks for comments.
    My point is that with the news of neutrinos
    Scientists who have understood the speed of light to be infallible, will have to rethink along with their ideas that only hot fusion is possible.To open up their minds with the possibility of cold type fusion such as the Rossi and Forcardi experiments.

  291. John Jan Popovic on October 3, 2011 7:19 AM

    Rossi’s reactor has nothing to do with fusion, like America has nothing to do with India (West Indes). It is whole new continent.

  292. Craig Binns on October 3, 2011 12:40 PM

    S Jerrard-Dunne

    I still can’t follow your reasoning. First, we don’t yet know whether the faster than light finding will be verified; second, even if it is, what does that have to do with the Rossi device? You can’t say, scientists don’t understand the motion of neutrinos (if indeed that is what comes out of the CERN experiments) therefore Rossi’s contraption might work. It doesn’t follow. Scientists say the world is round. Is that put in doubt by anything that MIGHT emerge from analysis of the neutrino data?

    To verify Rossi’s machine, look at Rossi’s machine, not at CERN.

  293. Craig Binns on October 3, 2011 1:57 PM

    John Jan Popovic

    Back on 13 Sept you wisely quoted this: “It’s a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.” – Sherlock Holmes (Sir Arthur Conan Doyle)

    That’s a very good principle, so why are you now violating it by calling Rossi’s reactor a new continent?

    You have absolutely NO data to justify such an inflated assessment of Rossi’s wet-steam puffer!

  294. José M. Hidalgo on October 6, 2011 1:25 AM

    ok, “BFast” wrote : “He will be doing a 12 hour demonstration on October 6.”

    Today is October 6th, I am waintig some kind information from you if somebody can tell me something about results.

    Tomorrow I think it will be new information and results.

    I am waiting. I will not say nothing negative or positive about these experiments until I have new information. I can have open mind if they are not taking my money… (joke)

    OK, waitinf information from you! Open mind is necessary for a scientist but of course “open mind with responsability”


  295. BFast on October 6, 2011 12:26 PM

    There is limited news coming out of the test, but there is some. Check out this link: This link also provides other links worth following.

    At the time I am writing this, the report is that the e-cat has been running self-sustained for over 4 hours! I’ve invested in Worcestershire sauce because it’s going to take a lot to make Craig Binn’s Glasgow bunnet palatable.

  296. Mario a Tuscan Optimist on October 7, 2011 12:39 AM

    Daniele Passerini is reporting in Italian on Twitter but, awaiting the current test report later in the day you can read in English the test report on the renovated e-cat held confidentially on 7th July in the same place in Bologna.

    Scroll a page down at this link:

    Yes I also think Craig will need a load of Worcestershire sauce (if he prefers I could provide some tastier pesto garlic sauce) for his Glasgow bunnet….

    More specific news as they’ll be released today or tomorrow.

    Mario an (ever more) Tuscan Optimist

  297. Craig Binns on October 7, 2011 12:40 PM


    I wait with impatience for the news to be released tomorrow, just as I waited for the “word” from Defkalion. Jose Hidalgo appears to be impatient as well. He is waiting for “some kind of information”, and he’s not even getting that!

    But I am waiting above all for substantive RESULTS. When, oh when, will I ever see them?

  298. BFast on October 7, 2011 1:08 PM

    Mr. Impatient, check out this:
    And find better number crunching here:

    Dr. Rossi’s 35kw e-cat was outputting an equivalent* of 15.6 kw in self-sustaining mode for 3.5 hours. Not perfect, but WAY BETTER than not working!

    *(The unit contains 3 e-cat cores, only one was operating, the average output power through the self-sustained run was 5,200 watts.)

  299. Craig Binns on October 11, 2011 10:18 AM

    Mr Credulous

    Look more carefully at the article.

    “The Thursday test took place on the same premises as the previous tests. The container housing the one megawatt heat plant that Ny Teknik provided pictures of a few weeks ago – and which, according to Rossi, should have been shipped to a U.S. customer a few days after we saw it – was still on site. “We had a preliminary agreement with a very important party in the U.S., but when we received the final draft, it included conditions that our lawyers said that we should not accept”, Rossi told Ny Teknik.”

    Again, the same bad luck that he had with his previous “important party”, Defkalion. They sign agreements, and then they don’t deliver. One wonders why not.

    “Shipment of the plant was then blocked; according to Rossi, however, the launch will still take place in October as earlier promised, though he could not yet disclose where this will take place.”

    This may prevent him from inviting people to inspect the start up operation, as previously promised. And yet again he sings an old song:

    “Within a few months the product will be on the market, and the best test is done by the customers who will come back with the product if it doesn’t work”,

    And where will they have to come back to? Rossi is well known for his habit of moving from one place to another when dissatisfied consumers “come back”.

  300. Mario Tuscan Optimist on October 12, 2011 2:44 AM

    For those of you who can manage to read Italian and keep an open mind, this link should be of interest
    by Focus an important magazine.
    Mario the Tuscan (still very) Optimist(ic)

  301. Craig Binns on October 13, 2011 11:14 PM


    Not impressive. Too much “sorry, that’s confidential”. I don’t think your dreams about Muslims getting back on their camels will be fulfilled any time soon.

    Three weeks to go until Rossi’s deadline. Not long.

  302. John Jan Popovic on October 14, 2011 5:40 AM

    “I’m convinced that this works …”
    Roland Pettersson, retired Associate Professor from the University of Uppsala

  303. William Lyne on October 16, 2011 2:59 PM

    It doesn’t matter in the least whether or not the device runs in “self-sustaining mode” so long as the output is so much greater than the input energy. It is funny to me to see all this squirming and speculating as to the nature of the process when I have already said that it is a version of my Lyne Atomic Hydrogen Furnace (see pages 102-103 of Occult Ether Physics published in 1997) which was published on the Internet about 2003. Pay attention to the drawing on pae 103 where it says “‘Activation Energy Device’ (spark plug, CATALYTIC METAL, etc)”. The catalytic metal is not essential for operation since the disociated atomic hydrogen reacts to recombine when it contacts any metal surface releasing great amounts of heat (@ c. 3500 degrees Kelvin). This is the 15-year-old plan. On page 102 substitute Primary Solar Rays (hence “PSRs”) in the place of “ZPR”.

  304. William Lyne on October 16, 2011 3:01 PM

    Correction: The proper URL is .

  305. José M. Hidalgo on October 17, 2011 7:38 AM

    I can read in the link:

    that the experiment will be the October 28…

    We will see. I hope they will have good results.

  306. BFast on October 17, 2011 10:50 AM

    William Lyne, thanks for the link.

    (I had a little trouble getting there. Clicking on it in Google chrome redirected elsewhere, but when I copied and pasted the link into the address bar, that worked.)

    It is obviously written in Italian. As a .pdf it is somewhat difficult to get a google translation of it, but I am succeeding. Google doesn’t translate very well, is there a chance that you can translate it to English? Your post suggests that you are very comfortable with English.

    I am curious, have you created one of your hydrogen generators? Has it worked? What kind of energy in, energy out relationships have you achieved?

  307. Craig Binns on October 19, 2011 2:35 AM


    What a suspicious mind you have!

    “I am curious, have you created one of your hydrogen generators? Has it worked? What kind of energy in, energy out relationships have you achieved?”

    If it was in pages 102 and 103 of “Occult Ether Physics” in 1997, what more evidence do you need?

    Twelve days to go.

  308. Mario Ricci on October 28, 2011 4:34 PM


    Here’s the streamlined good news:
    “Q&A just finished; reading of results; 470 kW maintained continuously during self-sustain; customer satisfied; sale made; more later”

    Now Craig you remind me of speech contests back in my old high school days when one had to debate for and the other against irrespective of whether one was right or wrong: surely you won’t accept any of this but shouldn’t you get your Worcester sauce ready for that Glasgow bunnet of yours …

    Rossi has to my knowledge only one bad precedent dating some 20 years ago. But that doesn’t mean he’s in the “habit of moving from one place to another when dissatisfied consumers come back”.
    The Petroldragon affair was nothing to do with consumers.
    Of course you’ll allow the man no free credit but aren’t you pushing it too far?
    Assuming he was guilty he’s paid dearly for his mistakes (though I wouldn’t rule out he was framed by his waste management competitors).
    Why the hell shouldn’t he be allowed a second chance?
    A lot of people, scientists and laymen are quite happy with the test results but you’ll always raise the stakes won’t you?

    As to my dream of Arabs’ bottoms on camels again, it’s ever moving closer ….
    Mario the Very Optimistic Tuscan

  309. Mario Ricci on October 29, 2011 4:43 AM

    Here’s the link to download:
    – 3 page report signed by customer’s engineer
    – Excel datasheet

    Difficult to play skeptical after all this.
    Anybody still denying this is a major breakthrough?

    Hard work and intelligence, not geographical accident and speculative finance, should play a role in world economy.

    Saudis can start thinking of where to stuff their oil ….

    Mario the Very Optimistic Tuscan

  310. Craig Binns on October 30, 2011 3:20 PM


    It won’t download. I need the name of the customer and confirmation of the alleged energy input. This is an obvious fraud, Mario. We were told there would be sales to the public, not a private deal with a “customer”.

    This is obvious nonsense. See comments at

    See also Steve Krivit at

    I despair of your credulity. How many more free energy scams will there be before people come to their senses?

  311. Craig Binns on October 30, 2011 3:27 PM


    Also, try not to be such a bigoted racist about Saudis stuffing their oil and Muslims mounting their camels, and that sort of thing. Rossi does hard work, but he works hard as a swindler, and he has intelligence enough to fool lots of people, and the role he plays in the world economy is enriching himself by taking money from the pockets of idiots.

    Have you heard anything more about him having to sell his house, by the way? Now that he has a “customer”, maybe he can buy it back!

  312. Craig Binns on October 30, 2011 3:36 PM
  313. The Science Behind the E-Cat Cold Fusion Reactor - Zorinaq on November 15, 2011 3:10 AM

    […] who is Rossi and who is Focardi? You cannot guess wrong, trust your intuition mrb Sunday 30 October 2011 at 8:23 pm | ¶ | Default Used tags: […]

  314. Craig Binns on November 15, 2011 8:02 PM

    Hey Zorinaq, I’ve left a comment on your site. You have produced nothing new about the “science” of Rossi’s contraption. It’s still a mystery and, I’m pretty sure, a scam or delusion.

  315. BFast on November 15, 2011 8:18 PM

    Craig, I noticed your link to the Forbes article where Mark Gibbs says:

    “If an experiment that demonstrates cold fusion has really been replicated in the real world by real scientists then why would the scientific community ignore something so profound?”

    This would appear to be the case that has raised Mr. Gibbs’ skepticism.

    I challenge Mr. Gibbs with the following link:
    Which says:
    “Tests conducted at NASA Glenn Research Center in 1989 and elsewhere consistently showed evidence of anomalous heat … such effects are now published in peer-reviewed journals”.
    Yet wikipedia describes LENR as “pathological science”. It would appear that Gibbs’ rhetorical question does not get the answer he expects.

  316. Craig Binns on November 16, 2011 1:55 AM


    Can’t find the quote there. Is it in one of the links in the NASA page? By the way, “evidence of anomalous heat” is a far cry from a machine that can allegedly churn out a megawatt of cold fusion power, while having to remain plugged into the public electricity supply for some mysterious reason.

  317. Richard Phillips on November 16, 2011 12:46 PM

    As I understand it, hydrogen fusion involves the interaction of two hydrogen nuclei, protons. These two elementary particles have to be to all intents and purposes infinitely close befoere they “fuse”, releasing energy, and yielding deuterium, a further three stages of nuclear reactions take place before stable helium is produced. The size of the nucleus as compared with the size of the hydrogen atom is such that to contemplate nuclear reactions with the nuclei separated by such distances, with only trivial forces, is impossible to envisage. Having used nickel catalysts in high pressure hydogenation reaction some fifty years ago, I can readily believe that “spurious heat” may well be knocking about! Somewhere I suspect that money making is involved. Maskelyne and Devant did quite well””

  318. BFast on November 16, 2011 3:03 PM

    Craig Binns, “Can’t find the quote there.” Page discusses “Novel Thin Film Sensors”. Quote exists near bottom of the page under heading, “Relevant Presentation:”

    The point of the link is that Nasa, a respected organization in the scientific community has achieved effects from a ponds/Fleishmann style experiment, and Nasa reports that there are peer reviewed papers that show similar. In this light, wikipedia describes LENR as “pathological science”, and the US patent office rejects all LENR based applications.

    Now, in light of this dicotomy, how do we interpret Mark Gibbs’ statement:

    “If an experiment that demonstrates cold fusion has really been replicated in the real world by real scientists then why would the scientific community ignore something so profound?”

    >> Experiments that demonstrate cold fusion have been replicated by real scientists.
    >> The scientific community has ignored something so profound.

  319. BFast on November 16, 2011 3:04 PM

    “As I understand it, hydrogen fusion involves the interaction of two hydrogen nuclei, protons.”

    Rossi’s reaction appears to be a reaction between Nickel and hydrogen, producing Copper, not hydrogen + hydrogen producing helium.

  320. Craig Binns on November 17, 2011 7:49 AM

    Stars fuse hydrogen to produce helium, liberating energy. This process is very well understood. Hot fusionists are trying to replicate it by reproducing stellar conditions on earth. The only question is whether this can be achieved in practice, at an acceptable cost, within the limits of available technology.

    But P&F were trying to achieve H+H fusion without replicating stellar conditions. It’s not known if this can be done. It was tried, and success was not demonstrated.

    Getting nuclear energy out of nickel, on the other hand … Do you know of any process occurring in the natural world, by which this is achieved?

    Do you know of any fusion process in nature involving nickel, which is exothermic?

  321. Leno Hansen on March 7, 2012 5:35 AM

    I would like if someone would comment on the e-cath system compares with the development of active catalytic carbon the variant produced by Howard Philips at the Philips Company. Philips says that he has developed the worlds cheapest and most efficient catalyst for producing hydrogen. Samples can readily be obtained to verify his claims. This would give e-cath a great run for its money if it is true. I am pasting a link to this comment.

    HYDROGEN Products News about Phillips Company Business Plans About Us Contact Us Home Registration

    Hydrogen from H2O
    at high flow rates
    Using Catalytic Carbon (Auto fuel test results) (Presentation #1) (Presentation #2) (How CC works) (How to obtain CC) (How to test CC) (Business model) (Press Release) (Radio Broadcast)
    Acknowledgment: The source of much of the information on this page is
    That URL is a rich source of water chemistry information. The reader of the information below is encouraged to visit the website for more information about basic water chemistry.

  322. Vladimir Vlasov on March 10, 2012 7:49 AM

    The theory of the reactor A.Rossi I know! Received a patent for a new energy method. This is steeper than that of A. Rossi. Method of multi-functional! And the chemical reactor and the reactor low-energy nuclear reactions, and the reactor is controlled cold fusion! Who would have bought the patent and know-how? For free, under the contract.
    Теорию реактора А.Росси знаю я! Получен патент на новый энергетический способ. Это круче чем у А. Росси. Способ многофункциональный! И химический реактор, и реактор низкоэнергетической ядерной реакции, и реактор управляемого холодного термоядерного синтеза!!! Кто бы купил патент и ноу-хау? Отдам бесплатно, по контракту.

  323. Joe Shea on March 10, 2012 11:23 AM

    In both this and an earlier blog post, I’ve found nothing concrete at all. Concrete evidence seems to get lost – if it exists – in fatuous commentary that simply surrounds the controversy rather than resolves it.

  324. BFast on March 10, 2012 11:56 AM

    Joe Shea,
    There is nothing concrete re: Rossi. Whether it is because he can’t deliver, or because he chooses not to, he has not provided the world with concrete proof.


    Of the phenomenon of Nickel + hydrogen LENR, there is a lot of concrete evidence. A single entry point to much of it can be found here:

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